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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Hi guys, I appreciate this community so much. We have such a wealth of knowledge here, which is invaluable to me because I plan to drive my '84 Vanagon for my whole life.
First and foremost: my Vanagon has never started right up. I always have to give it a little gas, and a lot of the time it takes 2 (sometimes 3) tries.
Secondly: my Vanagon has never idled well. About 30% of the time, the idle will get so low and eventually die. Doesn't matter if it's hot or cold. I never have running issues unless I try to let idle by itself.
Also: it runs rich. Really rich. It smells horribly of gas and I get terrible gas mileage. Maybe like 11mpg.
Things I've done in attempt to combat this:
-new distributor, distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs, starter
-check alternator & battery
-got a rebuilt AFM from GoWesty
-new O2 sensor
NOW ... last week I ran out of gas. I didn't realize I was out of gas at the time so I started it back up and forced it to run a little bit further. I had a gallon of gas that was a couple months old and it got me to the gas station.
Ever since this incident, I randomly get some pretty intense hiccups when applying load on the gas. It's like it wants to die, or kick out of gear or something. Especially in 3rd/4th gear, and especially right after shifting into gear. I have never experienced anything like this. It sounds very similar to Vanagon Syndrome https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.phpid=75, but my van is a 1984 and doesn't have Digifant fuel injection.
Things I have done in response:
-install GoWesty's post-fuel filter upgrade kit
-run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner
-fill with premium gas
None of this has made any difference. Sometimes I can drive for 30 minutes without experiencing the hiccuping at all, but other times it's aggressive and scary and makes me want to pull over immediately.
Another important note is that my idling issue is MUCH worse now. It now has issues idling 80-90% of the time and it also is slower to crank and might pause before starting up with a lower rate of successfully starting.
One more note: when I got the van, the previous owner had bypassed the digital idle stabilizer unit by plugging those two wires together. I tried plugging into the unit but no difference was made. So I ordered a replacement, but it hasn't arrived yet.
Ideas to do:
-clean all grounding terminals in the engine
-inspect/replace fuel injectors
-install digital idle stabilizer
-replace fuel pressure regulator
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'84 Westy Vanagon 1.9L - My home + my daily driver
Last edited by Kapish on Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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X2 on the injector rebuild including seals, and now is the perfect time to replace the fuel lines.
Cleaning the grounds is always good maintenance.
After running out of gas you have sucked up sediment from the tank so replacing the fuel filters might be a good idea.
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'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
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Last edited by MsTaboo on Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Thank you so much. I will get on that right away:)
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'84 Westy Vanagon 1.9L - My home + my daily driver |
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
X2 on the injector rebuild including seals, and now is the perfect time to replace the fuel lines.
Cleaning the grounds is always good maintenance.
After running out of gas you have sucked up sediment from the tank so replacing the fuel filters might be a good idea. |
Great. Thank you my friend. I replaced the fuel filter right next to the pump. Is there any other filter I should know about? Also: the fuel lines. Heard.
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'84 Westy Vanagon 1.9L - My home + my daily driver |
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remraf
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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| I recently ran my van bone dry while idling a long time while diagnosing ac compressor issues. Next time I came back van wouldn't start. My fuel pump was completely locked. Realize this isn't your issue but perhaps it may be worth a look? Mine failed catastrophically, maybe yours is intermittently failing? Prior to running mine empty my van always started easily. |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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| Kapish wrote: |
| MsTaboo wrote: |
X2 on the injector rebuild including seals, and now is the perfect time to replace the fuel lines.
Cleaning the grounds is always good maintenance.
After running out of gas you have sucked up sediment from the tank so replacing the fuel filters might be a good idea. |
Great. Thank you my friend. I replaced the fuel filter right next to the pump. Is there any other filter I should know about? Also: the fuel lines. Heard. |
It's been awhile since I owned a 2wd but I seem to remember there are two filters on the earlier vans. I believe there is one right after the tank.
Maybe someone can chime in.
Another place to look at for maintenance are the seals on the expansion tanks in the front wheel wells, they dry up and let dirt/moisture in.
If it's never been done these are all part of the fuel system/fuel lines that require replacement over time.
Best of luck!
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Here's a quick solution.
Download the revised edition of the Pro Training Manual.
Reading it will take you longer, but follow the diagnostics and you will probably solve your problems!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=725680
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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How do you know when you just need to clean your injectors vs when you need to replace them altogether with brand new ones?
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'84 Westy Vanagon 1.9L - My home + my daily driver |
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Cool, this looks like a great step. Thank you. This is my first time dealing with a fuel delivery issue so I'm really getting interested in how the whole system works.
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'84 Westy Vanagon 1.9L - My home + my daily driver |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1645
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:25 am Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Crud from the bottom of the tank can clog the filter.
Particles floating around in the tank can aggregate in the last gallons clogging the pickup.
I would change the filter, and blow the pipe back through with compressed air.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32598
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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RainierSyncro
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Joined: February 26, 2013
Posts: 806
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Thumbs up for the Mansi injectors if you got the extra $$$. I'm sure my old injectors just needed a good cleaning, but I like the Mansi upgrade.
https://mansispeed.com/products/ |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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Also, your in the PNE.... Install a kill switch on the Vanagon as an anti-theft device and develop the habit of using it! 
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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| remraf wrote: |
| I recently ran my van bone dry while idling a long time while diagnosing ac compressor issues. Next time I came back van wouldn't start. My fuel pump was completely locked. Realize this isn't your issue but perhaps it may be worth a look? Mine failed catastrophically, maybe yours is intermittently failing? Prior to running mine empty my van always started easily. |
Thank you for sharing your experience. I assumed the pump was something that either worked or didn't work. But I have had the same thought- that maybe it is like slightly damaged... who knows that the sediment sucked up could have done to it..?!
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'84 Westy Vanagon 1.9L - My home + my daily driver |
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djkeev
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whafalia
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Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 685
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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The little square filter pre-pump gave me regular trouble after filling up at a station that was being refilled by a tank truck. I believe that old wive's tale now. No problems since eliminating that filter and going to a big filter post-pump. The 84 fuel tank has a small orifice that Van Cafe offers an adaptor for.
I am considering a mansispeed pre-pump filter, looks like you can clear it on the side of the road,
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84 westie 2.2 w/ digijet, AT |
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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| whafalia wrote: |
The little square filter pre-pump gave me regular trouble after filling up at a station that was being refilled by a tank truck. I believe that old wive's tale now. No problems since eliminating that filter and going to a big filter post-pump. The 84 fuel tank has a small orifice that Van Cafe offers an adaptor for.
I am considering a mansispeed pre-pump filter, looks like you can clear it on the side of the road, |
I believe it too! Definitely going to be filling only with premium at good gas stations now.. https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=93 Tell me why you're considering going back to a pre-pump filter?
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Kapish
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Fuel is what cools the fuel pump.
If a fuel pump runs dry it is no cooled or lubricated.
Dave |
So Dave, do you think it's possible to only slightly damage a fuel pump? And if so, would my symptoms point to that being the case?
I just sent off my injectors to Mr Injector today, so thank you for that reference.
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