To overhaul or not to overhaul?

[AlexTheBug]

Long time admirer, first time poster. I need help deciding what the heck I should do next.

(Quick summary: I overheated and vapor locked the engine. After a few minor fixes, I've discovered that my distributor rotor is not turning when I turn the engine at the pulley. I'm afraid my camshaft may be damaged. Looking for advice.)

Background (feel free to skip)

I bought my 68' (with a '71, 1600cc, dual port engine) back in June - my first project car and my first beetle. My wife and I enjoyed a couple months of lovely cruises around town. The car was running great, except for little bubbly backfires on deceleration, and for occasional trouble starting. Otherwise, it drove as expected. I figured I would eventually fix the issues as I worked through the basic maintenance procedures from the John Muir book, replaced the battery, and generally learned more about the car.

One day I noticed that my green oil light was not coming on upon turning the key, so I spent an evening conducting trial and error until I fixed it (it was the bulb/socket connection, no biggie). In the process, I made a rookie move - I accidentally put the ignition wire on the wrong side of the coil. After failing to start the car again with the key, I tried push starting a few times. After my 4th or 5th try pushing, I smelled burnt rubber. It ended up being the condenser wire, completely fried. So I replaced the condenser and points... and I made another rookie mistake - I removed the distributor completely, which meant I needed to reset the timing. I figured all of that out and successfully reset the timing. The only issue - the backfiring seemed to have gotten a little worse. It was happening on acceleration now. Still, it wan't too bad, so I took it out to a bug show the next day.

The day of the show was sweltering hot. When I left, I was smitten with my Bug, so I took the scenic route home. Rookie move number 3 - I got myself stuck in traffic on a really hot day. By the time I found parking at home, the engine was clearly really hot. A couple hours later (still on the tail end of a hot summer day), I took her out again. Within a couple minutes, BANG! A huge backfire and the engine gave out. Clearly it had overheated. I gave it some time to cool on the side of the road, but it was clear that she wasn't starting again. Eventually I drained the old battery with multiple tries, so I got a tow home.

First, I replaced my old battery. I knew that was going to be needed since the previous owner told me it was an old battery, so I figured it was a good starting point. Next, I addressed the fuel. The filters had gone dry from the vapor lock, so I started by replacing the filters and some of the fuel lines. That led me to the fuel pump because even though gas was moving through the lines, it was not making it past the pump. When I pulled that, I noticed the bottom of the pump had almost no grease left. I think this is where the big backfire came from. Fuel may have leaked down into the engine and caused the explosion (Does that make sense to anyone else?). I decided to replace the fuel pump, gaskets, drive rod, and flange.

Once I got that done, I replaced my fan belt (just for good measure), and I began turning the engine at the pulley so I could see if my new fuel pump was working. Success! Fuel appeared in my filter between the pump and carb. However, I also pulled off the distributor cap and discovered that the rotor wasn't turning. I pushed it down a bit, and it would work for a quarter turn, but then stop turning again. After lots of research today, it seems like there's a good chance my camshaft has been damaged.

Questions:

-Is it possible it's NOT my camshaft? What else should I look for?
-If it is my cam, is my only option to pull the engine? Other options?
-I lost TDC - Is it possible to get that back?
-I can't throw a couple thousand at it today -- what are my best economical options moving forward?
-Any other advice regarding pulling my engine? Tips and tricks?
-As a newbie, what should I do myself, and what should I give to a pro (i.e., a machinist or mechanic)?

Thanks!

[viiking]

Before you go heading off in the "pull the engine mode", mark the distributor location at the rotor (preferably at TDC) and then pull out the distributor.

Check the distributor drive dog to see if it is damaged. It is located by a small pin which if you are lucky has sheared off. (If it has, it may have fallen in the engine).
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[mukluk]

My money would be on you've not seated the distributor fully into the case, so the ears of the dog aren't engaging properly into the drive. Your massive backfire occurred when the ignition went out of time.

You'll need to fully loosen the distributor clamp then push the distributor down whilst turning the rotor 'round until the whole thing seats downward several millimeters.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[joemama]

Man, you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. I agree with mukluk, somehow your distributor is not all the way down. Finding top dead center is not hard. just look it up on youtube. Backfiring on acceleration is more than likely wrong point gap, and timing. In my time of owning cars, I have driven 5 different air cooled vw over the years, mostly thru the 70's and into the mid 80's. These were my daily drivers, and I drove them everywhere. Never once did I worry about overheating. Currently I have a fiberglass buggy, and a 71 bug. I still dont worry about overheating. I dont remember ever dealing with vapor lock.
Look at he simple things. Go back over things you did and see if something needs to be corrected.

[Chickensoup]

Distributor could be not fully seated although, if that is the case, and you ran it that way, odds are the brass distributor drive gear's been turned into cinnamon flake.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[KTPhil]

A clamp bent up from overtightening can make it hard to seat the distributor fully.

[sjbartnik]

1) A properly tuned VW engine can get suck in a traffic jam on a hot day with no problem.

2) Vapor lock does not go BANG.

3) It's almost never vapor lock.

4) The distributor is not operated by the camshaft. The distributor drive pinion is turned by a brass gear that is on the crankshaft.

Let's start with the most immediate issue, which is that your distributor is not fully seated in the slot on the drive pinion. This could indeed be the main cause of the car backfiring, and then not starting.

1) do not rotate the engine with the distributor removed. This can cause the drive pinion to ride up in its bore and damage the brass gear.

2) Rotate the engine to TDC on #1 (you should know how to do this as you have to do it every 3000 miles for your valve adjustment). Since your distributor is not seated you can't rely on the rotor for this, but you have more than enough information by using your crankshaft pulley and removing the right side valve cover to observe the position of the valves on #1 cylinder. Rotate engine until the TDC dimple on the pulley aligns with the seam in the crankcase. Now go look at the #1 valves. If they are both closed and you can rock the rockers with their .006" clearance, you are at the right place. If one valve is open and one isn't, you are at TDC for cylinder #3 so bring the engine around another 360 degrees and you'll be in the right place.

3) Remove distributor. With distributor out, verify that the points contact surfaces are in good shape (not pitted or burned) and that the gap is set to .016" when the points rubbing block is on a high point of the shaft inside the distributor.

4) Observe the orientation of the slot in the distributor drive pinion. Note that the slot is offset from center. Find the pic in the Bentley manual (or I'm sure someone will post it in this thread) about how the slot should be oriented when the engine is at TDC on #1 and make sure yours looks like that. If so, when you align the rotor to the notch in the distributor rim, the tangs at the bottom of the distributor should fit into the slot in the drive pinion.

5) Check your distributor mounting clamp. If it is bent, it can prevent the distributor from seating fully in the drive pinion. Often, over-torquing the timing adjustment nut can cause the clamp to distort. You don't need a lot of torque on that nut.

6) Ensure when re-installing the distributor that you put a little oil on the o-ring to help it along, then as you are installing it, wiggle the rotor slightly as you press down to ensure that the tangs fit into the slot fully and that the distributor body is seated fully down against the clamp and there's not a gap there. At this point you should not be able to turn the rotor by hand.

7) Tighten the nut that holds the clamp, then you can static time the engine to at least get it close enough to start, where final adjustments can then be made with the timing light.

Get all the above done, report back, and we'll go from there.
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Zundfolge1432]

[Chickensoup]

[virusdoc]

[Zundfolge1432]

[Chickensoup]

[joemama]

Just curious. Was the fuel pump installed in the short block?

[Danwvw]

"AlexTheBug" Your getting some pretty good advice. I would say change the oil and see what is in it. You're probably looking at a screwed up distributor drive gear on the crank. They are yellow brass. So if there is a lot of yellow brass in the oil it needs a full rebuild.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Chickensoup]

[Danwvw]

I wonder why VW used Brass?
Was it kind of a needed place for things to break? Well maybe because it was safaificial there separating steel gears nicely? You know
(I always love tearing down a engine that's got a lot of miles on it and finding the Brass Gear Pristine!)
To have a distributor gear push up so much it disengages must be some kind of assembly error someone probably took the flywheel off that didn't know to look out for that gear carefully.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[AlexTheBug]

MASSIVE THANK YOU to everyone who replied. I indeed have some work ahead of me. Thank you for talking me off the overhaul ledge! I've learned a lot here.

Extra thank you to "sjbartnik" (for the clear and useful instructions) and "Zundfolge1432" (for the topical Beatles reference).

No doubt, I over-torqued my distributor clamp bracket when I replaced the points and condenser a while back. I knew it as soon as I read the first reply, and that was indeed the first thing that I found when I lifted my hood after stepping away from my computer. So this seems to be the most likely culprit of my troubles, as well as my inexperience installing my distributor.

I pulled my distributor and took look at the driving dog at the bottom. It doesn't look like the metal has been shaved at that point (phew), but I noticed it had a lot of play. I assume this isn't ideal, right? Should I take it apart or let someone more knowledgable do it (anyone in the San Jose, CA area interested?)

Should I go as far as removing the distributor drive shaft to see if anything is going on there, or better to leave it be?

Changing the oil sounds like a manageable next step for sure! I'll do that and work through sjbartnik's instructions and "Get Back" to the group.

Thanks again to all. I bought this Bug because I've always loved Bugs, I wanted to learn, and because I enjoy the VW community. Glad to be part of it.

[Cusser]

[joemama]

The distributor dog normally has a lot of play, its designed that way. I wouldnt mess with it.

[Zundfolge1432]