Brake Lights, and pressure switches

[MuzzcoVW]

While readying my Vanagon for the road ( not driven since 1988! ) I realized I have no brake lights. I haven't had time to diagnose yet... but had a thought. Does anyone make a quick brake light switch kit for these vans like the kit that's available for Bugs? I have a kit on my Bug and it's probably the best thing I did for safety. I've done some searching, but haven't come up with anything

[dhaavers]

Great idea. Although I'm still waiting for trouble to rear it's head, I've wondered the same thing for a while.

The pressure switch design is certainly one of the most ridiculously over-engineered things VW ever put on a vehicle...

<watching>

- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[Wildthings]

No clue what is in the kit you speak of, but I believe the switches for the Vanagon is the same as for a Bug, Transporter, or other boxer VW's

[MuzzcoVW]

[hdenter]

The kit is for a micro switch at the peddle that activates the brake lights as soon as the peddle is in motion instead of relying on the pressure switch on the master cylinder that doesn't activate until 20psi has built up.
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

[ALIKA T3]

Yes it will also last longer as there's arcing occuring in the pressure switch leading to its death.
An excellent read here: https://www.sw-em.com/hydraulic%20brake%20light%20switches%20notes.htm

My master cylinder is a European model with only one port, my brand new ATE switch took a sh!t on me in Nicaragua. I like the simplicity of just one switch, you don't wait for both to die to notice it
I had to cut it apart to fix it and put it back together with JB-Weld.
I also switched to LED's to make it last longer, I was running incandescent bulbs bc I have factory cruise control, but since I never had time to make it work, I went back to LED's
Pics here of the 3 prong model https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=281022&postorder=desc

I cut it open and cooled it down in the dog water bowl

Notice the contact that got hot and started to melt the plastic. I cleaned it with a razor blade.

Epoxyied, and zip tied for holding it shut

Curing all afternoon and overnight

Morning candy

Bonus picture, I squatted the Survivor show shack they built a few years back for the show. I found it randomly trailblazing overgrown vegetation on a huge private hotel property with paid public day access. I decided to chance it and sleep here since I was out of sight from the hotel and beach. Some old surfers came hang out, I offered them some beers in exchange of their silence , they told me about the shack.

_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[hardway]

GoWesty sells a switch for cancelling cruise control to replace the vacuum vent switches. I have one on the clutch pedal in my van with Stephan's 1.8t kit. I have not done it yet but I am thinking of using another on the brake pedal to operate the brake lights. A relay and some wiring would be necessary. I am sure the switch is not designed for that type of amperage.

Another way would be to install a late model brake light switch in the bracket for the vacuum vent valve at the brake pedal.

[ALIKA T3]

[hardway]

Alika, If you already have the GW switch installed at the brake pedal you can T into it to control a relay for the brake lights. The only complication I can forsee is you might need diodes to prevent current back flow.

I hadn't really thought about using a later model switch until composing a response to the original poster. My A4 Golf, B6 Quattro and BMWs all have similar brake and clutch switches. Most of those swiches have 4 poles. I know that the Golf has one switch that is normally open and one that is normally closed. The motor is drive by wire and needs two asymmetrical inputs for redundancy, just like the the throttle pedal sensor.

The newer switches usually push into a socket and then turn to lock into place. They are self adjusting. They might fit into the stock vacuum vent valve mounting bracket or that bracket might require modification to receive the switch. I doubt that you could physically fit more than one switch at a time.

[ALIKA T3]

Oh ok, a non-Vanagon late switch! Understood
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[Sodo]

Alika's repairs are always my favorite reading !
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[ALIKA T3]

[hardway]

I have been thinking about this since my last reply. The more I think about this the more dangerous the I think that the stock brake light switching system is. I looked at an A4 Golf switch I had in hand. Fabricating a mount for it would be complicated. Using a normally closed switch like the GW unit would be electrically complicated. I remember threaded brake light switches in older Japanese vehicles. I looked for suitable normally open switches at Summit Racing etc.. I looked at some new vacuum vent switches that I have. Then I looked at the vent switches as installed in one of my vans.

I started looking at stock brake light switches in old Japanese vehicles. If you go back to the 80's and early 90's they appear to be suitable. There are different versions for with and without cruise, ie 2 pole and 4 pole. I think that the switches have a 12 millimeter threaded shaft. The OD of the vacuum vent valves is just under 12 mm. I am pretty sure that those switches will fit in the stock bracket for the vacuum vent valves. And if it doesn't it would be easy to make a suitable bracket. I haven't looked at my Syncros without cruise yet, they are covered with snow right now. But I think that I remember that all Vanagons have little dimples in the sheet metal where you drill the holes to mount the brackets to receive the switches.

I have ordered a brake light switch for a 1990 Toyota truck. They are still available on the aftermarket. I ordered a Sankei brand. That is a first tier Japanese supplier so it should be rock solid reliable. They are available in multiple brands. I will install it in my 1.8t equipped bus to verify if it all works. That vehicle has a wire piggybacked onto one of the stock brake light switches as an input to the ECU. I will use piggyback terminals to connect the new switch to the plug at one of the stock switches. If it all works out I will have three functioning brake light switches then for maximum redundancy.

If this plan works out it will be simple to implement and very reliable. An elegant solution. I will report my results here.

[ALIKA T3]

Nice find!

Shouldn't be too hard to fit though....
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[Ronzo_volvo_guy]

ALIKA T3;

I am always drawn to postings of Brake Light Switches, so I read this thread...and what do I see?...a link to my notes article on the subject (thanks for the reference!), accompanied by post-mortem pictures of a switch which looks much like (no, identical!) to the one I also cut apart during my investigation, and with absolutely identical post-failure forensic evidence! (I was under the impression that mine was a Bosch switch, but the ATE identifier on the mounting surface leaves no doubt as to the manuf.)

I never epoxied my failed switch together, preferring to switch over to a later oe Volvo Pedal Position Sensing Brk Lt Sw, because having identified the root-cause of the failure, I knew such a repair wouldn't last and since it wasn't addressing the root cause, would likely fail in the same manner again...

Question to the VW experts: When did VW change over to PPSBrkLtSws? I'd be interested in what they did, and when, from the VW universe.

Happy New Year from the vintage Volvo universe...may your fuel-lines never deteriorate and become incontinent, may your star grounds remain shiny, clean and snug, and never develop a Voltage Drop (ACZP helps!), and may your Brake Lights always function reliably in 2022! Cheers

[Vanagon Nut]

I don't know if this brand is still available but this is what I installed in my '88

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726039&highlight=switch

I added shrink tube to the female connectors and *gently* "secured" them to the switch body with small cable straps.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[hardway]

Guys and Gals. I have finished installing a pedal position sensing brake light switch in one of my Vanagons. To answer Ronzo Volvo Guy's question about the implementation of pedal position sensing brake light switches in VAG products, I looked in the parts catalogs. The pressure sensing switch continued through the A2 chassis (2nd gen Golf/Jetta). The A3 had a position sensing switch.

The Bus that received the mod has a 1.8t that was installed with a kit from Stephan's. It had factory cruise. The vacuum vent valves were removed. The kit came with the cruise defeat switch from GoWesty for the clutch pedal.

The switch bracket replaces the stock vent valve bracket. In the photo you can see the clip on the pedal that serves as a stop for the vent switch and the GW switch.

This bus had the factory brake vent switch bracket and clip still installed.

. I had to remove the bushing from the bracket that originally received the vent valve.

You can see that there is a hole in the bracket that the pedal switch closes against. I wanted a solid broad surface for the switch to contact. I tried some plastic rivets.

Then off to the hardware store for some 10X1.25 jam nuts. I used a flat washer also. I did not find the results to be satisfactory. The switch was not square to the pedal. Also the switch closed the circuit only when the plunger was completely depressed. The body of the switch had to be in contact with the pedal to complete the circuit. I didn't like the mechanical strain on the components or the lack of margin for error. If the brake lights came on inappropriately I would end up with a dead battery. If the switch did not close reliably then the effort would be wasted. Also the switch was adjusted to the limit of it's travel.

After thinking about it I recalled that the Japanese brake and clutch pedal switches from this era always had some type of pad installed at the thrust surface for the switch. I remember Toyota ones being made of rubber. Being gentle on the switches and crumbling and failing. I ordered a bunch of the pads. The one I ended up using was a Dorman kit for a 1990 Toyota truck. It came with a rubber pad and a plastic pad. The plastic pad was thicker and would suit the geometry better. I measured the waist of the plastic clip that was part of the pad and the bore of the hole in pedal stop. I had to open the hole with a reamer. I wanted to minimize mechanical strain on the pad. By making the pad taller I was able to bend the switch mounting bracket and make the switch perpendicular to the pedal.

Better but not there yet. The switch still had available adjustment now. But the switch itself was still too touchy. I did not like the action. There was no room for error. I got a different brand switch. In an Intermotor box. The action was much better. I now had a closed switch well before the plunger bottomed in the switch.

Now on to the wiring. These brake light switches used a connector housing that was very common on 70s and 80s Japanese vehicles. Fortunately I remembered seeing one in the used connector bin. I took some photos of the bits. I wanted to post some photos of crimps. I used W type and barrel type connectors.

It was important to lash the new loom down safely. It is close to the steering column.

And this is how I T'd into the existing brake light wiring neatly while while preserving the function of the original switches as redundant backups. I have been aware of the variable behavior of the hydraulic brake light switches for years. Their behavior decays with time and use. Since the current will now flow through the position switch before the hydraulic switches close they should remain functioning as redundant backups for the duration.

Be safe! Practice Kaizen (continuing improvement) in all things.

[Ronzo_volvo_guy]

hardway;

Nice work, attention to detail and documentation!...I expect you now appreciate the earlier and reliable Brk Lt function...

Thanks also for the research on my question...it sounds like VW went to PPBLS pretty late (by my estimate from the models cited, the '80s).

Cheers

[ALIKA T3]

Great write up man, thank you!!

What's the part number of the switch you ended up with then?
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[hardway]

The brake light switch that I used is for a 1990 Toyota pickup, the part # is

84340 30030

The switch pad that I used is from a Honda

46505 SA5 000

Now I need a find a suitable high mounted center stop lamp assembly that will mount on the tailgate and is Bright!