4:20 Ramblings About Batteries, Solar, and keeping it Simple.

[pdm777]

Batteries are Different Now
than the old school batteries in the 80's.
You should not use 1980's battery troubleshooting
on these new fangled batteries.

REASONS WHY
ALL BATTERIES ARE THE SAME - there is
a handfull of vendors worldwide that produce
ALL automotive batteries. same product, different label.

DO YOU KNOTICE- old batteries (from the 80-90's)
used to very gradually lose capacity over months.
You KNEW when the battery was failing.
New Batteries, your battery will crap overnight with no warning.
This happens with Flooded Lead Acid / AGM / hybrid batteries.

RELIGIOUSLY- I now buy a new starter battery
every 36 months, regardless of current performance.
I buy Costco or Walmart, flooded lead acid.
Replacing the battery every 36 months is a perfect time to
keep battery box clean and corrosion free.
Flooded LeadAcid batteries are RELIABLE, CHEAP, PROVEN.
and work perfectlyfor a starter battery and available nationwide.

EVER TRY TO JUMP A WESTY?
I have anxiety about starting the engine in the middle of nowhere.
A cheap $70 jumper pack battery is a good solution.
Jumper Cables are worthless, not many current cars
have batteries accessable for jumper cables, and you
risk damage to delicate electronics.

FOR HOUSE battery,
It May make sense to go AGM, Lithium, LiPo.
It depends on your needs.
My needs are simple: LED interior lights,
USB chargers, Laptop power, Ch Diesel heater.
I have an AGM house battery, and it works well.
The AGM, Lithium, LIFEPO charge profiles differ from flood cell.
Your alternator may not be happy with that.
You May Find Yourself buying controllers, DC/DC boxes,
bluetooth suppositories, $$$$$ to update charge state.

Funny- watching friends constantly moving their rigs
to the Hottest Possible Site (no shade), and then moving
solar panels every 1/2 hour to 'optimize' charge for refrig.
(Instead of enjoying the outdoors they become electron
baby-sitters.) Not to mention the constant niggling fear
of Tweekers ripping off their solar panels. SNIP & GO!

SOLAR -
- do you really want to camp in direct intense sun?
- I seek the shade when I camp.
- Any alternator will provide MUCH FASTER charging than solar.
- how many days do you camp, and how much does that cost
for your 12V electrical needs? $4000 Battery+Solar system
for (XX days) of camping. You will be shocked.

- I'm into vintage camping- do you REALLY NEED
Microwaves,
induction heaters,
electric blankets,
movie players,
coffee makers,
and the Big Offenders- Electric Refrigerators.
LEAVE THEM AT HOME, you're Westy Camping!!!
$100,000 Sprinter Campers if you need all that.

For me, five days is a longer campsite stay.
Never had a problem with power, and three hours of driving
to the next campsite gets it all topped off=PERFECT FOR MY NEEDS!
My limiting factor is Cooler/Ice Chest. I have a YETI knock-off ice cooler
that provides a full five days of ice-cold storage, MORE, if I use dry ice
to extend the frozen steaks/lobster tails. (A second cooler for
beverages and veggies Hugely extends the YETI cooler timeline).

IN CLOSING, I choose to Keep It Simple.
This Isn't Rocket Science!
Simple 12 volt battery systems are proven by decades of use.

Starter battery w/ flooded cell lead acid is hard to beat.

For House Batteries,
- AGM works well, but has differing charging requirements than
conventional batteries for best life. Careless charging=loss of life,
down to 2-3 years.
- Lithium/LIFEPO/Exotic Batteries= stupid expensive,
requires battery advanced battery management ($$$$$).
I love this shit, but it makes no sense.
I'll keep the advanced battery skills for my e-bikes.

- IN THE END, we are talkin about a simple barebones Westy campers.
Spend you money on good Tequila, good tunes and enjoy the Ride.

NOW if I could only solve the problem of how to charge
my e-bike batteries while camping. Not going to happen
with solar, and I refuse to use a generator.

My e-bike batteries are super capacity lithium, and while charging
overnight is the ideal situation, Charging two or three 48V 21aH batteries
overnight just isn't economically feasible yet with current Solar+Battery tech.

E-bikes are the Best for Camping! you will not regret it.
I am Happy that my $3000 moutain bike provides so much FUN while camping.
I am 65+ yrs old. w/ebike, I can cover more ground than a 20-yr old,
keep up with my sons and their sons, and not hurt so bad the next day.

The second Best Upgrade of all Time is the Chinese Diesel Heater.
Cheap, Forced Air (safe), and automatic controls w thermostat.
Extends the Comfort Zone into early Spring to Late Fall. It gets dark
early, and 74 degrees warmth is wonderful inside with cotton pajamas.

Spend your Solar Panel money on a FS Ebike (and tequila) and have Fun!

_________________
1990 Westy Full Camper

[Steve M.]

Most excellent post! Thank you.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.

[dobryan]

To each his own. Peace.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Sodo]

Yes excellent post.

Except for a couple things.
The feller hasn’t yet discovered LiFePO4 batteries from AliExpress.
When he does, he’ll sell the lead for scrap price.
Then electric refrigerators will get his attention.

LiFePo4 doesn’t refuse a charge like the 2nd half of a lead battery’s lifetime.
LiFePO4 gobbles up all the amps it can get, if you run your engine for 30 minutes you can put 20 Amp hours back into the batteries.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[nemobuscaptain]

I agree completely, keep it simple.

Deep cycle marine traditional lead works fine for running some LEDS and a few things. I've never needed more. I question the need for an AGM for most users. $100 bucks and a dual battery relay worked when westy installed it, still works great.

I see people dropping many, many thousands on solar and all the attendant crap. It is a religion, mostly. No #VanLife credit wothout solar.
Worse yet, it takes them years to install all this stuff and most never end up camping... bc they are waiting for their glamping stuff to be installed.

The only people I see having short battery life at the lithium and agm folks. It seems all the components (chargers) have to be matched beyond the capability of many folks ability or few chargers work well.

I have messed around a bit with solar on a few occaisions. Have four small chargers right now. However the depressing reality is winter in the midwest just doesnt offer much sunlight. On the normal day the chargers rarely reach even half the their clear day voltage.

Even the smell of tequila makes me sick. Rum however.....
_________________
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[pdm777]

Educate an old fart about benefits of LiFPO and others.

Very much want to learn about ebike charging realities vs fantasy.
I'm an artist, not an engineer.

Benefits vs. Cost between Flooded Lead Acid / AGM / Lithium

I wonder if a small LiFEPO would be better for House Battery.
BUT then the added costs charge controller, wiring, install, etc.
make it more expensive than my current setup.

What improvement in performance over my current AGM setup
would I realized in everyday use ?

I simply want reliable, simple and affordable 12v for my small needs
in the Westy.

Not joining the Church of Solar Panels.
_________________
1990 Westy Full Camper

[Abscate]

Pick, you have worked the problem well on the demand side. Keeping house amperage down memes life a lot simpler. On the Cape We would do 7 days on anchor with two batteries and row ashore for ice cream. The Cost and infrastructure to put in freezer capability was probably five years vacation budget
_________________
.ssS!

[djkeev]

I began camping in the 1950's.
Not by choice But I was put into the car and taken by my parents.

That is just shy of 70 years of camping.

Ice chests are my single biggest beef about camping.
Not only getting ice (the camp ground ice man is long gone) but dealing with the melted ice.
The first 15 years or so of camping the mess of the ice chest never bothered me much...... that was Mom's headache, the dutiful 50's Wife who lived to serve her family.

But in the humidity the ice box would sweat, if your sleeping bag was next to it all day....... you slept wet that night!

If the drain valve leaked and it had been set upon the car seat not knowing it is leaking ..... you ride all day with a wet butt!

As an adult I became aware of the horrors of floating food!
Saturated containers, floating labels, leaking plastic bags, meat juice, slimy wet cheese and cold cuts...... you name it! A petri dish of food sewer! And the smell and feel of the slimy water! UGH!

I hated it! But there were few if any options.
I tried just about every new design of ice chest .......

Then along came the truck fridge!
It hasn't even been a decade yet but the 12volt DC ice chest has changed my life!

So what? It needs a battery..... pfffft! TOTALLY WORTH THE EXPENSE!

12 volt cooling is my single camping electronic luxury. I am NOT going back to ice!

Dave
_________________
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[kamzcab86]

I agree with your overall "keep it simple" message, but...

[Corwyn]

He said 4:20 Heh. Heh. Heh.

_________________
'90 White Westy ("Knarr")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
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"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~

[jlrftype7]

[shagginwagon83]

I just got back from a 5-day, 1100 mile trip in my Westy with 150aH LiFePo4, diesel heater, and Dometic fridge.

I was able to do a non-electric campsite for $4 at a state park.

While I was drinking my morning coffee, I had the slider door open (diesel heater can be too much on low above 50), heater running, stereo with sub blasting, and a 12v fan blowing on me. Wasteful, yes - but super comfy.

Since the heater was running continuously it was always nice to come back from a hike or grocery store to a 65'F van.

I am getting an eBike this year and it will be cool to charge that from a huge $600 300aH LiFePo4 bank.

KISS is easier - no doubt. But in my opinion LiFePo4 has changed the game.
If you want USB charging, 12v fans, and a 12v fridge, build a DIY LiFePo4 battery, and install a proper system.

Dobryan sees this and I am seeing him adding 300ah packs to each of his vans
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[Sodo]

[Californio]

Jumper cables not useful?

If you have your system set up right, you jump between the aux battery and the starter. No outside help needed.

I had this happen once after leaving the van in an airport parking lot for several weeks. Worked perfectly. No need for a stand-alone battery pack.

[vanagonjr]

[Sodo]

[vanis13]

[Californio]

New gas water heaters are junk. The fancy valves fail within a year or so and the "warranty" just means they'll send you out the part. I'm a landlord and have had tenants waiting up to a week while the part arrives. Not good. Now back on topic.

[DuncanS]

[nemobuscaptain]