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SoFloScott Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2020 Posts: 31 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:00 am Post subject: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Hi all,
I was advised by a VW enthusiast here to block the ports which feed air from the engine through the heating system. I've seen a few posts on the subject here and think this is ok but wanted to double check just so I don't damage my engine.
So I have nothing under the engine for the heating system' no jtube
s, heat exchanges...nothing. Am I ok to block these ports with the understanding it will increase the cooling action on the engine? I live in Florida so cooling is a big deal!
Also, given there is no heating system, should I block the holes int he bottom of the tinware that allows for those connections?
Thanks,
Scott |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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You certainly don't want to leave them open. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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SoFloScott Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2020 Posts: 31 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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All sets? The holes in the bottom of the tin AND the holes from the engine pushign the air through?
Is there anything specific I should use to block them? Ie blanking plates that fit? |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Anything from duct tape to welding patches over them.
Old style baby food jar lids fit great on the fan shroud. Hardware stores sell or sizes of rubber and metal plugs. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Step 1: Drink beer.
Step 2: Cut apart beer can.
Step 3: Clamp can ends to shroud.
Step 4: Rivet flattened can sides to rear tin.
Step 5: Have another beer to celebrate job well done. |
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SoFloScott Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2020 Posts: 31 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Thanks guys.
I'm not usually very handy but I think I can get behind this project! Off to the beer store... |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7047 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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while i am all for the beer drinking route, you could also buy a new fanshroud without those holes. Or don't and invest the money you just save in beer. _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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mandraks wrote: |
you could also buy a new fanshroud without those holes. |
If you're talking about an aftermarket 36hp shroud without fresh air... don't bother, they don't cool as well as the stock shroud.
If you're talking about a 73 Type 181 (aka Thing) shroud which is a factory dog house without fresh air... $$$$. You can also get a rear tin with no holes.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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69aircooled Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Excellent example of a proper hot rod layout you got there Glenn! |
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Trevor P Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004 Posts: 863 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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You can buy brand new properly built shrouds without the ducts but definitely more costly than blocking off your existing ports. Options these days are better then they've ever been.
https://store.concept1.ca/Fan-Shroud-W-OHeat-W-Holes-COOLED.1.2-62217/ _________________ 53 Canadian standard oval
56 Wolfsburg PG/SG
57 Oval, 2332 & Berg 5
70 911T
91 Westy |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7934 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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SoFloScott wrote: |
Hi all,
So I have nothing under the engine for the heating system' no jtube
s, heat exchanges...nothing.
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if you don't have heat exchangers then surely you have J tubes... what exhaust set-up is there?
I understand that there can be heat issues when heat exchangers are removed and people fit plates to shield the cylinder head and keep the cooling air flowing out the back of the tins rather than leaking sideways. see these:-
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401943
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367242 _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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tpinthepack Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 816 Location: clearwater,florida
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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I just looked at your gallery and you do in fact have heater boxes back in your November pictures so this should be a simple fix by keeping it stock and buying the pipes and connector clamps etc. _________________ TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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SoFloScott Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2020 Posts: 31 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Thanks guys. Ok I clearly have no idea what I am talking about.
From photo below, can you please answert the following questions?
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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OK...
You do have heater boxes.
There are actually 4 heater boxes, one on exhaust pipe. The ones on #1 and #3 (the larger ones) and #2 and #4 (the small ones).
The fan shroud has a outlet on each side. From there a paper/foil hose runs through the larger holes in the engine tin to the small heater boxes on $2 and #4. From there they run to the larger heater boxes on #1 and #3 connected by a wide metal band clamp. From there they exit the front via a large plastic hose to the body of the vehicle.
In this diagram the bottom is your setup.
The hose #22 connects to the fan shroud outlet.
#27 is the wide band clamp that connects the small and large heater boxes.
#5 at the bottom is the large heater box.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Trevor P Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004 Posts: 863 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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If you are still running heater boxes then I'd recommend to leave the hoses from fan shroud in place. By eliminating the hoses and having no airflow through the boxes you will cause higher exhaust temps leading to higher head temps. If you want to eliminate the hoses and plug the shroud outlets, then remove the boxes and install J pipes. _________________ 53 Canadian standard oval
56 Wolfsburg PG/SG
57 Oval, 2332 & Berg 5
70 911T
91 Westy |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9913 Location: idaho
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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SoFloScott wrote: |
Thanks guys. Ok I clearly have no idea what I am talking about.
From photo below, can you please answert the following questions?
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Get heater tubes for the big holes and hook up that whole system.
The smaller holes are for the preheat for the air going into the air cleaner. Probably not super important in florida, so you can just block those off, although it would be better to make the whole system stock. Your tin piece is from a '67 beetle which has two preheat pickups. Buses only ever had one. So you need to block off one of those holes either way. The stock preheat doesn't work with your air cleaner. Either way, with or without the preheat, you should install a stock air cleaner. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7047 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Glenn wrote: |
mandraks wrote: |
you could also buy a new fanshroud without those holes. |
If you're talking about an aftermarket 36hp shroud without fresh air... don't bother, they don't cool as well as the stock shroud.
If you're talking about a 73 Type 181 (aka Thing) shroud which is a factory dog house without fresh air... $$$$. You can also get a rear tin with no holes.
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i was thinking of the thing shroud. _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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69aircooled Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Since you have heater boxes on your engine you should at least get hoses and connections #22 and #9 shown in Glenn’s post. You may need the clamps as well. These will help keep the heater boxes from getter too hot as mentioned above. The smaller holes should then be closed up. |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12399
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Here is the FAQ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71827
It has lots of useful info.
There is a thread on heating/cooling system in the VW. The cooling system is the heating system, and the heating system is the cooling system.
The cooling air is not cooling the engine if it is blowing out into the engine compartment. That should be sorted out ASAP.
Read up here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434051
There are a few differences for a split bus... as in the bus muffler has one tailpipe rather than two for the beetle, and the air cleaner is slightly different, but basically it is the same system.
SoFloScott wrote: |
Thanks guys. Ok I clearly have no idea what I am talking about.
From photo below, can you please answert the following questions?
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_________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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Culito 11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006 Posts: 5865 Location: Columbia Missourah
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Blocking Air from Engine to heating system |
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Any idea if the internal fins are different? I can take an old doghouse shroud, remove and block off the outlet pipes for much less than $400. _________________ Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug
johnnypan wrote: |
...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
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