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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 1664
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 Posted: Today 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Tram wrote: |
| A proper false prophet creates real profit. |
There is nothing real about false prophets.
Methinks we threw "The Secret Devil Sign" so many times at concerts we conjured the actual devil.
Curse you, Ozzie Osborne. 
Or maybe it was Jerry. Doomed to throw The Secret Devil Sign due to lack of a a finger. 
Most people don't pause to consider the artificial nature of money. Money has value because we agree it has value, more or less. That's the basis of digital play money systems such as Bitcoin.
Some quiet contemplative music about chasing wealth:
NSFW LYRICS
Link
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 8745
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Today 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34767
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Yesterday 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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We argue over cause, but we had better focus on mitigating the effect.
Our military takes this seriously and has plans to deal with rising seas and warming temps, but they are late to the game.
The Russians are even more adept... they have been making land claims and building bases in the arctic north of Alaska in expectation of a future opening of a northern passage that will make the Panama Canal obsolete. They also foresee extensive critical material mining in the area.
We wring our hands and blamestorm, while the ruskies are getting ready for the results. They play chess, we play checkers...
_________________
Current Fleet:
'71 Fastback
'69 Westfalia
Retired:
'67 Beetle
'65 Beetle (x2)
'65 Bus
'71 Squareback |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15457
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Yesterday 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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It's all a guess.
Science only has a hypothesis on what happened 1000, 100,000 or 1,000,000 years ago. Science DOES NOT have any hard facts on what actually did happen. Bullshit if you think there is, we are just guessing.
Climate change is gonna happen in an unknown cycle of 30 years, 10,000 years, or maybe 3 million years, it's all just a guess. The hell if you think there is any factual science that proves any of it.
Man can not change the climate in any measurable amount.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22026
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Yesterday 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Shonandb wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Shonandb wrote: |
The problem is that climate is always changing and we've positioned ourselves poorly and may have to deal with increasingly extreme weather for another 50 to 1000 (or more) years before the next cooling trend.
Or maybe, it will all go back to normal next year.... |
you're 100% right
but you can almost do a "man made" cooldown. I don't have time now, but there was a volcano that erupted in the 90's (?) and gave us some crazy snowfall/cooler than "normal" temps for like 18-24 months as I recall.
I'll try to look it up when I get a chance |
Yes volcanic eruptions and large meteor impacts can be catalysts to throw enough small particles up in the atmosphere to block sunlight and result in cooler temps. With Ray's graph above, most cooling trends in earth's geological history didn't just happen on their own, there was usually some sort of catalyst associated with it that started the trend.
Hard to predict when the next one will occur though and we may lose a few million people depending on where, when, and how big the next impact will be or major eruption will take place.
Another unimaginable possibility would be nuclear Winter given the geopolitical conflicts going on, but let's hope our World leaders have the common sense not to go that far. |
YES ....YES...YES....you got it!
See, its a natural cycle. We know that. The scientists know that.
BUT.....it may take sevearl hundred thousand years or longer for the cycle to tip over the edge from "inter-glacial" period (meaning warm and habitable) ...to "glacial period" (meaning ice age).....NATURALLY....all by itself.
To cause it to happen quicker...takes a CATALYST.
Just over the past 50 years alone, scientists have been finding evidence that some of the five big "epochs" or eras between the BIG ice ages.....had various catalysts....like the big asteroid they are pretty sure did the dinosaurs in. And/or....possible huge volcanic activity. There is also increasing evidence that the end of the great forest epoch may have happend because with 4/5ths of the not ocean world at one time covered in forest, that a decades long series of continent wide forest fires during a drought condition....maybe have been the C02/ light blockage/green house effect that propagated an ide age.
There is also getting to be evidence that some of the intersections of the 6 or so short and long term "helio cycles"....sun and solar system cycles.....may have intersected with some of the "not quite" enough by themselves.... catalysts on the planet surface.
So.....as I have stated....I understand the global warming/greenhouse effect/termination event...C02 based cycles that the scientists are warning of....and yes....WE...people....may very well be the current catalyst for the next ice age.
While It would have eventually come by itself because the breakdown of C02 is a 33 year process in the atmosphere while the breakdown of methan (into C02 and water) is a 6 year process.....and the more C02 you get....the more methane the planet surface will produce. Its autocatalytic.
So yes, we are not CAUSING it. Its a natural cycle. But I do believe they are correct that we are speeding up its onset.
HOWEVER....what does that mean...speeding up? So instead of it not happening for another 100,000+ years...it happens in 15-20,000 years? Or even another 1000 to 1500 years?
I do not see that as fast enough in the big scheme of things to be breaking our balls and making rash energy decisions. Yes...we should be working on what we are going to replace fossil fuels with....usinga all of the eneregy we DO HAVE...at our disposal now. Because in a few thousnd years once the ice age starts....we had better be done because we probably will not have simple access to coal and oil anywhere north of the equator.
I do not see the mad dash to shut down all fossil fuels as stopping the process....much less reversing it. Ray |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34767
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 8745
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Yesterday 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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that would be mt pinatubo in 91. be careful what you wish for as the ash cloud etc cuts down sunlight and temperature which can cause crops to fail.
the 1815 eruption of mt tambora caused summertime frosts in 1816 leading to famine and high food prices. it became known as the year without a summer and 'eighteen hundred and froze to death'
there was an upside -
In England, the dreary atmosphere inspired Mary Shelley to write Frankenstein; in Germany it led Karl von Drais to develop an early bicycle to save on horse fodder.
when you read books, or tv shows, about archeology there is often mention of warm periods, reduced ice cover etc and nobody bats an eyelid. yet when the news or weather comes on 'it's been the hottest year on record since 2019' !
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1516
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Yesterday 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Shonandb wrote: |
The problem is that climate is always changing and we've positioned ourselves poorly and may have to deal with increasingly extreme weather for another 50 to 1000 (or more) years before the next cooling trend.
Or maybe, it will all go back to normal next year.... |
you're 100% right
but you can almost do a "man made" cooldown. I don't have time now, but there was a volcano that erupted in the 90's (?) and gave us some crazy snowfall/cooler than "normal" temps for like 18-24 months as I recall.
I'll try to look it up when I get a chance |
Yes volcanic eruptions and large meteor impacts can be catalysts to throw enough small particles up in the atmosphere to block sunlight and result in cooler temps. With Ray's graph above, most cooling trends in earth's geological history didn't just happen on their own, there was usually some sort of catalyst associated with it that started the trend.
Hard to predict when the next one will occur though and we may lose a few million people depending on where, when, and how big the next impact will be or major eruption will take place.
Another unimaginable possibility would be nuclear Winter given the geopolitical conflicts going on, but let's hope our World leaders have the common sense not to go that far.
_________________
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17152
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Yesterday 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Shonandb wrote: |
The problem is that climate is always changing and we've positioned ourselves poorly and may have to deal with increasingly extreme weather for another 50 to 1000 (or more) years before the next cooling trend.
Or maybe, it will all go back to normal next year.... |
you're 100% right
but you can almost do a "man made" cooldown. I don't have time now, but there was a volcano that erupted in the 90's (?) and gave us some crazy snowfall/cooler than "normal" temps for like 18-24 months as I recall.
I'll try to look it up when I get a chance
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 13599
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Yesterday 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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I agree with Shonandb on everything except this:
| Shonandb wrote: |
| Or maybe, it will all go back to normal next year.... |
I am not yet convinced there is an actual "normal" in our changing weather other than there are 4 seasons. Every year is different.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7962
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| Who said everything on the internet is true? |
I read that it was true on the internet. |
Forget elevated carbon dioxide levels, global warming etc.. Let's celebrate a renaissance of stupidity, a golden age of ignorance.
In our Dunning Kruger world there isn't enough analytical thinking left to sort what's likely to be true from what is likely to be false. We avoid the persistent migraine of actual thought. All we need to do is line up behind the false prophet of our own choosing.
A proper false prophet creates enough imaginary problems we never need worry about actual problems.
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A proper false prophet creates real profit. |
6:00pm Pacific Time Zone will be neat. 
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1516
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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The issue isn't whether the climate is changing or not. Climate is always changing.
It seems that we are currently in a warming trend which according to geological records, has happened in some sort of cycle for millions of years.
From geological records & studies (core samples, etc), the average global temperatures have been much warmer/colder and CO2 levels have been higher/lower on multiple occasions over the last billion or so years than now.
In the past, our populations were much smaller and disperse - so more adaptable to changes in the climate.
Now (for the last 500 years or so), unfortunately we humans got lazy and built all of our cities and most populous areas at or near sea level thinking that our current climate was/is stable. Advances in medicine and nutrition have led to longer life spans and an enormous population.
Now, ~40% of the world population lives within 60 miles and <25ft of sea level and most of these are high density cities. Considering the average storm surge from a major storm (Typhoon, Hurricane, etc) is 20ft, any rise in sea level will put these areas under constant threat especially as temps increase fueling stronger and more frequent storms.
Warmer temperatures = more energy in weather systems and more instances of extreme weather patterns both warm and cold. Existing weather patterns change and areas of consistent precipitation and fertile soil may turn into more arid zones or frequent flooding with will affect our crop/food growing ability.
The problem is that climate is always changing and we've positioned ourselves poorly and may have to deal with increasingly extreme weather for another 50 to 1000 (or more) years before the next cooling trend.
Or maybe, it will all go back to normal next year....
_________________
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22980
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| Who said everything on the internet is true? |
I read that it was true on the internet. |
Forget elevated carbon dioxide levels, global warming etc.. Let's celebrate a renaissance of stupidity, a golden age of ignorance.
In our Dunning Kruger world there isn't enough analytical thinking left to sort what's likely to be true from what is likely to be false. We avoid the persistent migraine of actual thought. All we need to do is line up behind the false prophet of our own choosing.
A proper false prophet creates enough imaginary problems we never need worry about actual problems.
.
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A proper false prophet creates real profit.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 1664
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| Who said everything on the internet is true? |
I read that it was true on the internet. |
Forget elevated carbon dioxide levels, global warming etc.. Let's celebrate a renaissance of stupidity, a golden age of ignorance.
In our Dunning Kruger world there isn't enough analytical thinking left to sort what's likely to be true from what is likely to be false. We avoid the persistent migraine of actual thought. All we need to do is line up behind the false prophet of our own choosing.
A proper false prophet creates enough imaginary problems we never need worry about actual problems.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22026
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| The latest analysis in Science Advances April 2024 Armour et Al , reports last ice age Co2 was relatively low, and certainly not above the 300 ppm max line. |
DURING the ice age....yes. C02 was very low. No one cares during the ice age. Its the build up shortly before the ice age which is the starting point.
Once the ice age has begun ....meaning once the termination event happens at maximum atmospheric C02.....the C02 content will start dropping dramatically over just a couple thousand years as atmospheric moisture content starts "snowing out".
That is yet another example of scientists and probably more likely just the media.....glomming onto ONE SINGLE data point and reporting it.....instead of reporting the entire process alongside that single point of data.
It paints a totally different narrative.....without the context of the whole process.
That methodology is what passes me off. It causes one side of the population to frantically point out that it's all going down the shitter NOW unless we change EVERYTHING.....and paints anyone who disagrees....yet is willing to point out the REST OF THE DATA.....as a climate denier.
That is factually false.
Ray |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 13599
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Jon Schmid wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| Who said everything on the internet is true? |
I read that it was true on the internet. |
John Fogerty gave us an alternative years ago:
"I know it's true, oh so true...
Cuz I saw it on TV..." |
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22977
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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The latest analysis in Science Advances April 2024 Armour et Al , reports last ice age Co2 was relatively low, and certainly not above the 300 ppm max line.
_________________
.ssS! |
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Jon Schmid
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2012
Posts: 2075
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
| Who said everything on the internet is true? |
I read that it was true on the internet. |
John Fogerty gave us an alternative years ago:
"I know it's true, oh so true...
Cuz I saw it on TV..." |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34767
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| Who said everything on the internet is true? |
I read that it was true on the internet.
_________________
Current Fleet:
'71 Fastback
'69 Westfalia
Retired:
'67 Beetle
'65 Beetle (x2)
'65 Bus
'71 Squareback |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7962
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Who said everything on the internet is true?
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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