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Xevin 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 6593
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 Posted: Yesterday 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I've never had to wait in line to get gas. |
How quickly they forget…. |
Totally right. The USA will not be held hostage by a raw material embargo. We will not be dependent on cheaper foreign resources again.  
History has proven this  
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| Abscate wrote: |
| I dont hate anyone on the Samba - except for Xevin - who brought me cold coffee in the morning. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 20579
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Yesterday 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Quote: |
| I've never had to wait in line to get gas. |
How quickly they forget….
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.ssS! |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 6593
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| Posted: Yesterday 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| hobthebob wrote: |
| Xevin, I don't have the patience to spend all day reading pages upon pages of debates and back and forth's! I want an answer, and I want it now, gosh darn it! |
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| Abscate wrote: |
| I dont hate anyone on the Samba - except for Xevin - who brought me cold coffee in the morning. |
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hobthebob
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2021
Posts: 254
Location: On The Road Again
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| Posted: Yesterday 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Xevin, I don't have the patience to spend all day reading pages upon pages of debates and back and forth's! I want an answer, and I want it now, gosh darn it! |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 6593
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| Posted: Yesterday 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| hobthebob wrote: |
Okay, people say EV's are horrible on the environment just because of the rare earth materials needed to create the batteries etc., but regular cars are pretty bad on the environment as well, just by being more complicated and requiring like probably hundreds of more little pieces/parts to keep them running, right?
I mean, an emissions system on a modern car with a catalytic converter, an evap canister connected to a gas tank with a purge valve for the engine that has an engine air filter connected to a throttle body, with an engine that has pistons and connecting rods and gets fresh oil every 5k miles (and probably leaks or burns a considerable amount of that oil into the environment) which is filtered by engine oil filters that are replaced sometimes just as frequently and dumped into land fills, etc. has gotta add up to like SO much extra pollution from various manufacturers that all have to pollute the earth in order to make their variously sized pieces that fit into a modern car to make it go...
Tell me I'm wrong! :p |
Hey there. How many pages of this thread have you read? I believe all your questions have been answered, debated, debunked, and still being regurgitated and challenged. Get caught up man and bring it 
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| Abscate wrote: |
| I dont hate anyone on the Samba - except for Xevin - who brought me cold coffee in the morning. |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 497
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Yesterday 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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It's all smoke and mirrors, it comes down to what the masses are tricked into believing what is best for humanity.
Especially, in today's mentality or lack of , just change the meaning of words..voila |
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hobthebob
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2021
Posts: 254
Location: On The Road Again
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| Posted: Yesterday 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Okay, people say EV's are horrible on the environment just because of the rare earth materials needed to create the batteries etc., but regular cars are pretty bad on the environment as well, just by being more complicated and requiring like probably hundreds of more little pieces/parts to keep them running, right?
I mean, an emissions system on a modern car with a catalytic converter, an evap canister connected to a gas tank with a purge valve for the engine that has an engine air filter connected to a throttle body, with an engine that has pistons and connecting rods and gets fresh oil every 5k miles (and probably leaks or burns a considerable amount of that oil into the environment) which is filtered by engine oil filters that are replaced sometimes just as frequently and dumped into land fills, etc. has gotta add up to like SO much extra pollution from various manufacturers that all have to pollute the earth in order to make their variously sized pieces that fit into a modern car to make it go...
Tell me I'm wrong! :p |
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Floating VW
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1491
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Yesterday 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| nbvolks wrote: |
| A restaurant or hotel on a roadtrip is not the destination. They're stops you need to make along a roadtrip because we're human beings, not automatons. So let me restate it again as clearly as possible. When I take roadtrips in my ICE vehicle, I need to make stops to refuel it regardless of my needs, so I need to go to a gas station, which may or may not conveniently be on my route. When I've taken roadtrips in my EV I have only had to "refuel" it while already doing normal things that you do on a roadtrip, like stop to eat lunch. I have not had to go out of my way, or make an additional stop for the sole purpose of charging the car. |
I would say restaurants and hotels can be either a destination, or a brief stop on your way to somewhere else, depending on what your goals are for the day.
If you believe gas stations are inconveniently located and public charging stations are everywhere you may need to stop, then I think perhaps your personal lifestyle and the area you live in are skewing your perspective a little. Haven't you seen the video of the poor dude who tried to drive his Rivian from Jersey to S.C. and back?
Where I live, there is a gas station with a mini-mart on pretty much every street corner. The only public charging station I am aware of is in the parking lot of the swanky golf course where all the heavy hitters go to show off their Tesla's. I could be wrong, but I believe most of the world is living closer to my reality than to yours.
| nbvolks wrote: |
Because those things don't exist where you are, doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere already. . . This also isn't showing all of them, as it will show more if you zoom in. (note how it shows none in Denver zoomed out this far, which is obviously wrong).
https://i.imgur.com/8FuIaMT.jpeg |
I sincerely hope, for your sake and for the sake of all EV owners, that there are more charging stations available than what were on that map, 'cause according to that map, there are only 472 charging stations in about 40% of the continental United States and southern Canada!
Something else I would like to point out: I can go to a gas station and get a full tank of gas in a matter of minutes (as "inconvenient" as that may be); I've never had to wait in line to get gas. Charging an EV for anything more than a short hop requires considerably more time. Even if that can be done while you are doing something else, what do you do when the charging station is already occupied?
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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Bonesberg55
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1022
Location: Norway, Illinois
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| Posted: Yesterday 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Just as the price of ICE vehicles doesn't go down, neither will the price of an EV go down. Regardless of the cost of raw materials, wages & benefits will soar. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 25712
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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yep depends how you look at it.
People think I'm nuts driving the old VW year round, but....compared to what?
I tell them it's waaay better than a vespa
Most all agree.
These electric scooters are all over town, but those things are total junk compared the vespa as a noodle delivery vehicle but they may re-evolve in a positive direction again once they re-discover center of gravity and air resistance. just a matter of if or when anybody gets a clue. Could happen any time or never. |
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Floating VW
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1491
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| nbvolks wrote: |
| Floating VW wrote: |
| Perhaps that's because 99% of EV owners are opulent city-dwellers? |
Why's that the thing for you? It starts coming off as smug jealousy when you come at it from that angle. But, let's go with your assumption. IF it were true that it's only being adopted by "opulent city-dwellers" (it is not), then what's it to you? If it works for them, so be it. |
Hold your fire, comrade! I'm not trying to knock the way another cat swings (I'm not even sure it's possible to be both smug and jealous at the same time). If you or anybody else wants to own an EV, for whatever reason, I'm totally cool with that.
It only becomes a real problem when our politicians (all of whom, as a general rule, are opulent city-dwellers) start crafting policies which only make sense inside their own personal bubbles, and then try to force these policies on the rest of the populace.
Just curious, but why do you assume most EV owners are NOT opulent city-dwellers (or wealthy suburbanites, whatever)?
| nbvolks wrote: |
| Again, price out building a tube based console TV. That's no longer cheaper. Manufacturing a car is more than just "poof" it exists. You need tooling, design, years of development. At some point ICE vehicle development will be more expensive. |
Comparing an EV to an ICE is not the same thing as comparing a 50 year-old TV to a modern TV. Regardless of how technologically advanced they are, ICE vehicles are made of mostly steel, aluminum, plastic and glass. EV's are made of those same materials, PLUS a very large quantity of highly expensive (and usually rare) metals such as copper, cobalt, lithium, neodymium and dysprosium.
I expect the EV of tomorrow will eventually be cheaper than the EV of today, but unless they figure out how to make it without all the rare metals, it will ALWAYS cost more to manufacture than an equivalent ICE.
| nbvolks wrote: |
| Do you also try very hard to know the source of your clothing? |
Yes. I only buy clothes that are not made of cobalt. They chafe too much.
| nbvolks wrote: |
| The entire initial premise behind EVs as emissions mitigation was that the average American drives <40 miles per day. That's the reality. It may not be your reality, but for most it is. To that end, even the cheapest EV on the market meets and exceeds those needs several fold. |
Exceeds 40 miles a day, several fold? Hah! Tell that to Steve's Leaf!
But seriously, here's the problem with that logic: the "average" is not necessarily the same thing as the "majority".
For example, if you have 50 rural people who drive 80 miles a day, and 50 city people who drive zero miles a day, the average for those 100 people is still 40 miles per day. If a policy is made based on that average of 40 miles per day, fully half of those 100 people are gonna be screwed.
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 10656
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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It's like the belief that black cats bring bad luck. In my view all cats bring bad luck but the worst ones are really the ones with white stripes and a big fuzzy tail!
E cars are the future? Sure but so are gasoline cars, diesel cars, propane cars, natural gas cars, maybe even N2 cars... some day. The more choice we have the brighter the future! Competition is the basis for a healthy market. If everything gets changed over to electric that leaves the market wide open to power companies gouging the public.
And don't think for one moment they will not take advantage of that opportunity!
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I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts! |
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Bonesberg55
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1022
Location: Norway, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| EV's are not the future. No point in pushing the fantasy. |
They're not, it's mitigation.. don't you see |
No, its litigation! Don't you see? |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 497
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| EV's are not the future. No point in pushing the fantasy. |
They're not, it's mitigation.. don't you see |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 14859
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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EV's are not the future. No point in pushing the fantasy.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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nbvolks
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2020
Posts: 222
Location: MA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
| nbvolks wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
To mitigate , in mitigation, have been mitigating, has been mitigated.. not sure there in the correct order, but I understand now, we're in the process of mitigation, we are going to mitigate and when we finally finish mitigating we will be mitigated.. got it 👍
Thanks nbvolks.. |
Sometimes repetition is the only way to get through. |
It's also the best way to normalize a lie. Repetition is the #1 propaganda tool! Repeat something often enough and people start to think a lie is true. It even works on yourself given enough effort. |
And in comes the ad hominem logical fallacy.
It's like being a freshman in college all over again! |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 10656
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| nbvolks wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
To mitigate , in mitigation, have been mitigating, has been mitigated.. not sure there in the correct order, but I understand now, we're in the process of mitigation, we are going to mitigate and when we finally finish mitigating we will be mitigated.. got it 👍
Thanks nbvolks.. |
Sometimes repetition is the only way to get through. |
It's also the best way to normalize a lie. Repetition is the #1 propaganda tool! Repeat something often enough and people start to think a lie is true. It even works on yourself given enough effort.
_________________
I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts! |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3048
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Mitigation is just another word for climate change. Global warming, climate change, bla, bla, bla, all the same crap being pushed on us by those that think they know best |
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Bonesberg55
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1022
Location: Norway, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Do we need to reopen "The McCarthy Hearings"? |
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nbvolks
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2020
Posts: 222
Location: MA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
To mitigate , in mitigation, have been mitigating, has been mitigated.. not sure there in the correct order, but I understand now, we're in the process of mitigation, we are going to mitigate and when we finally finish mitigating we will be mitigated.. got it 👍
Thanks nbvolks.. |
Sometimes repetition is the only way to get through. |
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