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Abscate 
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 20852
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Pruneman99 wrote: |
MASS x ACCELERATION = FORCE.
Science. |
Tesla >> econobox
Darwin
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Pruneman99
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Pruneman99 wrote: |
MASS x ACCELERATION = FORCE.
Science. |
Tesla >> econobox
Darwin |
That's a pretty insensitive comment.  People that drive econoboxes obviously can't/won't throw a pile of money at a Tesla.
So that's Darwinism? |
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Floating VW
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1516
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Xevin wrote: |
Thanks, that’s the kind of information I’m looking for. That doesn’t me I fully trust everything thing on the internet but it’s part of researching what is true and what is BS. Some good take aways in that article. |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| . . .That motortrend article sited every far left rag out there. Not one datapoint was made from a middle ground organization NPR? you couldn't get any further left than those folks |
Sorry Xevin, but skills is right. That Motortrend article had a few too many holes in it to be taken at face value. The guy who wrote it appears to have gotten all his information from a New York Times article, who got their information from a single college thesis written by some students at the U of Michigan. The study was funded by the Ford Motor Company (take what you will from that). Several mistakes were made in this study, for which they later had to publish a corrigendum.
The article also bases a lot of its rhetoric on the assumption that in the near future, all of our energy needs will come from renewable sources. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this assumption is one of the key pillars supporting the pro-EV argument.
P.S. Did anyone else notice that the cobalt mine in Idaho is owned by an Australian company? Seems like the American slice of this pie is gettin' smaller and smaller every day.
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Floating VW wrote: |
| Xevin wrote: |
Thanks, that’s the kind of information I’m looking for. That doesn’t me I fully trust everything thing on the internet but it’s part of researching what is true and what is BS. Some good take aways in that article. |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| . . .That motortrend article sited every far left rag out there. Not one datapoint was made from a middle ground organization NPR? you couldn't get any further left than those folks |
Sorry Xevin, but skills is right. That Motortrend article had a few too many holes in it to be taken at face value. The guy who wrote it appears to have gotten all his information from a New York Times article, who got their information from a single college thesis written by some students at the U of Michigan. The study was funded by the Ford Motor Company (take what you will from that). Several mistakes were made in this study, for which they later had to publish a corrigendum.
The article also bases a lot of its rhetoric on the assumption that in the near future, all of our energy needs will come from renewable sources. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this assumption is one of the key pillars supporting the pro-EV argument. |
You and I see the same things in the article. However it brings up a couple bullet points worth investigating. Maybe valid, maybe not. I don’t believe everything I read on the internet. I do try to be objective until I’m not 
I appreciate people offering up information to explore. I’m no expert on any of this.
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| Abscate wrote: |
| I dont hate anyone on the Samba - except for Xevin - who brought me cold coffee in the morning. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 11058
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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There has been and always will be vehicles of all different sizes and weights colliding on the roads. Nothing new to see or discuss here folks, nothing specifically EV related move along...
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I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts! |
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Floating VW
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1516
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Onceler wrote: |
Electric vs. gasoline efficiency
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Man, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you, that's not my intention, at all.
But these graphs really need to be exposed for what they are. Every single one of the numbers shown here was cherry-picked to make ICE look a lot worse, and EV's look a lot better, than they really are. The numbers are not exactly lies, it's just that they're not always true.
We already discussed most of this a few pages ago. 16% efficiency for an ICE is only true if you look at the worst ICE on the road. The best ICE is over 50% efficient. Where is that number on the chart? Conversely, only the best EV's are 87-91% efficient; the worst are much lower. And that 87-91% is only when you include that magical "regenerative braking". 22% is pretty good! Except for when you don't do any braking, 'cause then it's 0%. That's also not on the graph.
They did, at least, include the losses incurred at the charging station. Unfortunately, they forgot to include the losses at the power plant and transmission lines, which are kind of important since that's where an EV's "original fuel" actually comes from.
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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Floating VW
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1516
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Xevin wrote: |
You and I see the same things in the article. However it brings up a couple bullet points worth investigating. Maybe valid, maybe not. I don’t believe everything I read on the internet. I do try to be objective until I’m not
I appreciate people offering up information to explore. I’m no expert on any of this. |
Well said.
The Force is strong with this one.
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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[email protected]
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16173
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| steve244 wrote: |
You're serious, aren't you.
Scary. |
What's scary is you drink this stuff up without question or hesitation. Jim Jones would have been proud
Bottoms up
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 20852
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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EV gives you the ability , in the future , to move transportation energy from fossil to non fossil fuel sourcing. It also gives you the chance to sequester Carbon at the power plant.
It’s that simple , and they are here now because:
They are more economical for a large segment of commuters
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12399
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
EV gives you the ability , in the future , to move transportation energy from fossil to non fossil fuel sourcing. It also gives you the chance to sequester Carbon at the power plant.
It’s that simple , and they are here now because:
They are more economical for a large segment of commuters |
This conjures up visions of some hardcore Orwellian caste systems…. Let’s just sprinkle in some CBDC…
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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bigdog1962
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2010
Posts: 1547
Location: Augusta, Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| In 1974 my bug was no match for a Ford LTD |
Brings back memories - my parents bought a brand new LTD in the 70s and we nicknamed it "The battleship" because that thing was so big, solid and heavy.
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Oprn wrote: I'm getting to the age that any self propelled woman (no wheel chair or walker) looks HOT!! Oooo! look at that Babe! She made it from the dining room all the way to the TV room without help!! Hubba, hubba!! |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1615
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Some info on why Co2 and other greenhouse gases trap heat
| Quote: |
| This ability to absorb and re-emit infrared energy is what makes CO2 an effective heat-trapping greenhouse gas. Not all gas molecules are able to absorb IR radiation. For example, nitrogen (N2) and oxygen (O2), which make up more than 90% of Earth's atmosphere, do not absorb infrared photons. CO2 molecules can vibrate in ways that simpler nitrogen and oxygen molecules cannot, which allows CO2 molecules to capture the IR photons. |
https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/how-climate-w...-radiation
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DeathRay64
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2019
Posts: 216
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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In an open atmosphere, that heat is almost instantly released back to the air. Unlike water vapor which is the real greenhouse gas.
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Making VW's and America great again. |
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1011
Location: GA
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1011
Location: GA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Pruneman99 wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Pruneman99 wrote: |
MASS x ACCELERATION = FORCE.
Science. |
Tesla >> econobox
Darwin |
That's a pretty insensitive comment. People that drive econoboxes obviously can't/won't throw a pile of money at a Tesla.
So that's Darwinism? |
I know I was deeply offended.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a Leaf 
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1615
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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The extra greenhouse gases cause extra heating
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1615
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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this one has a little better detail
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1011
Location: GA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Well, water vapor does have a stronger greenhouse effect than CO2. (60% to 25%)
It's just that we can't control water vapor as well as we can CO2.
Plus, adding to the greenhouse effect with CO2, increases heat, which increases the air's capacity for water vapor, and evaporates more water increasing the greenhouse effect.
Runaway!!!!
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a Leaf
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1615
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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greenhouse gas concentrations are much higher now than at any point in human technological civilisation
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12399
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Onceler wrote: |
greenhouse gas concentrations are much higher now than at any point in human technological civilisation
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From “0” to “2005”…. When was “0”? I’m pretty sure there weren’t any data points from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, definitely not before it.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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