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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1665
Location: GA
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 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| kingkarmann wrote: |
Some more fuel for the EV’s are bad topic.
“The cost to drive an internal combustion engine vehicle 100 miles in the U.S. fell below the cost to charge a comparable electric vehicle for the first time in 18 months, a new report from a Michigan think tank says. An analysis of late-2022 fueling costs by the Anderson Economic Group says midpriced ICE drivers are paying about $11.29 for 100 miles of driving, an average of 31 cents less than midpriced EV drivers who charge at home.
Source: Automotive News” |
That’s some made up think tank shinola there.
A “ mid priced ICE” would need to average 25 mpg on the commute to get those costs while the average EV would have to be paying 40 cents a kWhr , and a Tesla 50mcents a kWhr, to be paying more than that.
Who funds that swill tank.? |
They are including other costs in the operation of an electric, such as added state taxes and the cost of the charger. They don't say what states, taxes, or how much a charger costs so we're left to imagine those.
In GA the yearly registration for the Leaf includes $200 EV vehicle usage fees to fund roads. This is kinda sucky as it doesn't consider how much I use the roads. Now it's ok at $16/mo but I'll be annoyed when I'm no longer commuting 800 miles a month.
The charging station can be spendy. If you need an electrician and he has to add a subpanel and heavier gauge wire to the street.
In my case, with 150amp service I wired in a commercial grade Siemens outdoor charging station. The station was about $700 and I spent another $100 on the wiring. Since the economists in that report consider taxes, I also got a $600 credit, so the net cost to me was $200 for the charger. I've had it 4 years so that's another $4.00 a month the electric is costing me.
If I only charge at home that 800 miles is using 240 kWh @ $0.12/kWh = $29.
Adding in the taxes and charger cost (amortized over 4 years) it's another $20/mo so my "operating costs" are $49/month.
If I were paying the national average for electricity of $0.165 my operating costs would be $60.*
That same 800 miles in an ICE at 30mpg with $3/gal gasoline would cost $80.
So the swill tank isn't that far off. If you paid through the nose for a charging station and amortize it over a short period, you could easily show the electric as being more expensive.
* https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm
_________________
82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf 
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1665
Location: GA
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Arizona. Bought a townhouse 17 miles away from my workplace in 1979, 9 traffic lights. When I sold it in 1988 there were 29 traffic lights on same route.
Don't get me started that during that span there were two "500-year floods" that washed out bridges (99% of the time was zero water in that "river") and a big project to put a giant drainage pipe under the main road during those 9.5 years, so had to detour for like 7 of those years. I drew a circle 5 miles from work, and bought in that circle, and still there.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 511
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow  |
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Bonesberg55
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| I just might be interested in an electric bike but just for fun. No electric pedal assist though. That's cheating. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow |
Yes, second was higher than the roadway of the McClintock bridge over Salt River, ruined the supports which were not built far enough back (to save money of course). The first was less severe. This bridge happened to be on county land, where the one a miles west was city of Tempe, and the one 2 miles east was city of Mesa, so they had money to re-build theirs first, so all the folks had to detour.
After 1980 flood only two bridges in the entire Phoenix metropolitan area were kept open, and one was built in 1931 (Mill Avenue Bridge), the other was on Interstate 10. So traffic to cross the river (I lived south of the river, and worked on the north) took up to 4 hours each way. So I stayed with girlfriend on north side of river and went back on weekends, and my sister lived at my place as she went to ASU south of the river.
In December 1978 I was visiting girlfriend in Los Angeles just before Christmas, and a flood then left exactly one street to get into Phoenix from Interstate 10 (which didn't connect then).
Arizona has been pretty dummmm at some stuff, and bridges were not their strong suit....
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
They are all in on woke and equity, somehow  |
What does that have to do with transportation?
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12708
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow |
500 year floods??!! Old math tells me those are 4.5 year floods... I will never understand the new math!!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12708
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| steve244 wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Who funds that swill tank.? |
Us TDI owners! We get 55+ mpg in town, 62 mpg on the highway! 
SUCKERS!! 
My turn to be smug! |
There's a dance and secret handshake. Oh and a blood initiation. You up for that? |
Oh and I have owned it for 8 years now, had to replace the battery once at $135, not $20,000! 21 years old, doesn't require special tires, 11 hour range on 48 liters, can fuel it up with a jerry can or buy from any farmer if I run out, 410K Km and climbing daily...
Smug, smug!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Mickey bitsko
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2019
Posts: 511
Location: New Mexifornia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| :2gunfire: ^^ hear! hear!.. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow |
500 year floods??!! Old math tells me those are 4.5 year floods... I will never understand the new math!! |
Remember that people who tracked weather have only been in this area say 150 years, don't know how they came up with such 500-year number. I've taken calculus, and still have zero idea.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12708
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow |
500 year floods??!! Old math tells me those are 4.5 year floods... I will never understand the new math!! |
Remember that people who tracked weather have only been in this area say 150 years, don't know how they came up with such 500-year number. I've taken calculus, and still have zero idea. |
I am thinking it's the same math that is being used to prove that EVs are going to save the world. 
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
| .......... but really that was a horrible thing to make a child do! One day she is going to look back and realize she was used. |
Yeah, I agree, so much wrong with that whole deal...
But this discussion is about how bad electric cars are, we must stay focused on the topic and not what words have been put into that poor kid's mouth.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Floating VW
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1596
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| steve244 wrote: |
| They are including other costs in the operation of an electric, such as added state taxes and the cost of the charger . . . |
Well, don't you kinda have to include all those other "hidden" costs? I mean, if one were truly interested in having a fair discussion, that is.
| steve244 wrote: |
| In GA the yearly registration for the Leaf includes $200 EV vehicle usage fees to fund roads . . . |
And don't think I didn't notice that we've done over a hundred pages so far, and this is the first time you've mentioned THIS little tidbit! Smug and sneaky, yes you are!
$200 is enough to buy me well over 2000 miles worth of go-go juice. And that's including tax!
| oprn wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow |
500 year floods??!! Old math tells me those are 4.5 year floods... I will never understand the new math!! |
Remember that people who tracked weather have only been in this area say 150 years, don't know how they came up with such 500-year number. I've taken calculus, and still have zero idea. |
I am thinking it's the same math that is being used to prove that EVs are going to save the world. |
No, no, you're thinking about it all wrong!
The first flood happened at the end of one 500-year cycle; the second flood happened at the beginning of another 500-year cycle.
The next flood won't happen until some time in the year 2485, right around the time when you ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie. Duh.
_________________
"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22640
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| Quote: |
| $200 is enough to buy me well over 2000 miles worth of go-go juice. And that's including tax! |
Your Tesla Tosser pays about $75 for that same mileage, plus another $40 in tax , that’s why she’s so smug.
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.ssS! |
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Bonesberg55
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| Mickey bitsko wrote: |
| Two 500 year floods in 9 years ..wow |
500 year floods??!! Old math tells me those are 4.5 year floods... I will never understand the new math!! |
Remember that people who tracked weather have only been in this area say 150 years, don't know how they came up with such 500-year number. I've taken calculus, and still have zero idea. |
I am thinking it's the same math that is being used to prove that EVs are going to save the world. |
Understanding the new math is simple. Any answer is correct as long as you do the steps you are told. Yes, that would explain the big push for EVs. |
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1665
Location: GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Ok you haven't been paying attention.
Thanks for confirming.
| Floating VW wrote: |
| steve244 wrote: |
| They are including other costs in the operation of an electric, such as added state taxes and the cost of the charger . . . |
Well, don't you kinda have to include all those other "hidden" costs? I mean, if one were truly interested in having a fair discussion, that is.
| steve244 wrote: |
| In GA the yearly registration for the Leaf includes $200 EV vehicle usage fees to fund roads . . . |
And don't think I didn't notice that we've done over a hundred pages so far, and this is the first time you've mentioned THIS little tidbit! Smug and sneaky, yes you are!
$200 is enough to buy me well over 2000 miles worth of go-go juice. And that's including tax! |
Yawn...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9949591&highlight=registration#9949591
| steve244 wrote: |
| heimlich wrote: |
| steve244 wrote: |
I think local governments should put free plug-ins in every lamppost for EVs. Just add it to the streetlight charge.
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That may come. What they are planning is to monitor how many miles your car drives. Then you get a tax based on the number of miles. They will have to do something to figure out what the state and federal gas tax currently pays for. |
And give us a tax credit for the number of miles we drive since we're helping the environment. It'll all work out.
Seriously, I pay a fee to account for road use when I pay for yearly registration. It's a couple hundred bucks to the state of GA. |
_________________
82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12708
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Road tax should be calculated on miles driven X vehicle weight. That way those that do the most damage pay the highest tax.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1665
Location: GA
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steve244
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1665
Location: GA
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