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Abscate  Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 23679 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Correct.
Math is poorly received here, but the tariff on an EV is 1kW/4 miles and the tariff on an ICE at 30 MPG is 1kW/1 mile
That, and centralising the power source gives you opportunity to clean up even fossil fuel based power, as well as options like BioGas, Biochar, etc.. _________________ 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊 |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 3591
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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EVfun wrote: |
zerotofifty wrote: |
For the electric car to actually be green in a propulsion sense, you need green electricity, [….] |
Not really, the efficiency of an electric car is so much higher than a vehicle gas engine that they can use less power even running on the US average coal fired power plant (though running on average US coal they would have higher particulate missions). The gas engine in a car struggles to achieve 20% overall efficiency, gas station to wheel. The EV can manage 80% plug to wheel. Yes, there are losses getting power to the plug, but they are also losses turning crude oil to gas and getting it to thousands of stations.
I would add, my power is less than 5% hydrocarbon based and I’m not paying for any type of “green power.”
75% hydro
9% nuclear
8% wind
3% solar
I guess I should also add I don’t currently have an EV.  |
Yes, really. If the power generated for the electric car aint green, then it aint green. And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
Even that 75% hydro power aint all that green, as a wild river was dammed to produce that power.
Electric cars have horrible refueling rates, extremely inefficient in time use. |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 3591
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Abscate wrote: |
Correct.
Math is poorly received here, but the tariff on an EV is 1kW/4 miles and the tariff on an ICE at 30 MPG is 1kW/1 mile
That, and centralising the power source gives you opportunity to clean up even fossil fuel based power, as well as options like BioGas, Biochar, etc.. |
Tariffs measured in kw/mile? What is that about? |
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Abscate  Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 23679 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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zerotofifty wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
Correct.
Math is poorly received here, but the tariff on an EV is 1kW/4 miles and the tariff on an ICE at 30 MPG is 1kW/1 mile
That, and centralising the power source gives you opportunity to clean up even fossil fuel based power, as well as options like BioGas, Biochar, etc.. |
Tariffs measured in kw/mile? What is that about? |
Its a math thing that China pays. _________________ 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊 |
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oprn Samba Member

Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 14627 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Abscate wrote: |
Its a math thing that China pays. |
How did you get China to pay your energy taxes?! I am all ears on this one!! _________________ Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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crofty Judas of the North

Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19815 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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zerotofifty wrote: |
And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
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Oh, Captain Deflector you crack me up. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 3591
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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crofty wrote: |
zerotofifty wrote: |
And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
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Oh, Captain Deflector you crack me up. |
The 100s of fine folks evacuting do to this Moss Landing fire are not cracking up over this.
These battery banks are needed for the green electric revolution we have been warned about. Plus they will be in your homes and cars. Fun times await. |
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crofty Judas of the North

Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19815 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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zerotofifty wrote: |
crofty wrote: |
zerotofifty wrote: |
And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
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Oh, Captain Deflector you crack me up. |
The 100s of fine folks evacuting do to this Moss Landing fire are not cracking up over this.
These battery banks are needed for the green electric revolution we have been warned about. Plus they will be in your homes and cars. Fun times await. |
Luckily, no oil related accident has affected 100's of fine folks. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead

Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 17791 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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crofty wrote: |
Luckily, no oil related accident has affected 100's of fine folks. |
luckily oil was never sold as a green energy source and the risks were pretty well known. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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oprn Samba Member

Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 14627 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Every form of energy has risks. A young fellow a couple years back in another branch of the company I worked for failed to appreciate the energy stored in a valve spring. When he released that energy it took his head with it...
You might think that is off topic but energy stored must be respected and handled properly whatever form it is stored in. _________________ Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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KTPhil  Samba Member

Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 35744 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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I learned all about energy and storage with this little toy from the 1950s:
_________________ Current Fleet:
- '71 Fastback
- '69 Westfalia
Retired:
- '67 Beetle
- '65 Beetle (x2)
- '65 Bus
- '71 Squareback |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead

Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 17791 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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^^^^
and other than that 3rd nipple, extra nut and a tic when you talk, there were no ill effects  _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
Last edited by skills@eurocarsplus on Sat Mar 01, 2025 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 23039 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
^^^^
and other than that 3 nipple, extra nut and a tic when you talk, there were no ill effects  |
That is just bad-ass! Here is the Wiki on that thing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_U-238_Atomic_Energy_Laboratory
They say it was made 1950-51 and only about 5000 made!
I had two large chemistry sets. Lots of poisonous shit in them. Made some cool stuff. It will probably be what eventually kills mea long with all of the chemicals I come in contact with at work.
Ray |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 23039 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Well...electric vehicles are still very bad....and their drivers range from energy whores to electron thieves and charging station groupies......but I thought an electric car themed aside that can be interesting to both EV lovers and haters....would be a video about differences in bearing choices for output differentials in both a VW EV and a Tesla EV.
Enjoy! I did!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUHBki1fiMY
Ray |
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finster Samba Member

Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 9845 Location: not far from the madding crowd
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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in the uk the climate change committee (nice work if you can get it) says that to meet 'net zero' by 2050 4/5ths of cars would need to be ev and 1/2 of homes have a heat pump. they did concede that for this to have any chance of becoming a reality electricity would need to be cheaper...well that ain't gonna happen!
meanwhile the gov are wanting to expand gatwick and heathrow airports...  _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead

Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 17791 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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finster wrote: |
and 1/2 of homes have a heat pump.  |
well, this guy isn't happy with his:
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/heat-pump-works-badly-winter-110000221.html _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Cusser Samba Member

Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 32909 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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[quote="skills@eurocarsplus"]
finster wrote: |
and 1/2 of homes have a heat pump.  |
I'm in Phoenix, and also confirm that heat pumps do NOT work very well at temperatures below like 40F. The incoming temperature to the rooms will be just barely over existing room temperature yet the air - because it is moving - feels cold. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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oprn Samba Member

Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 14627 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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To add to the myths surrounding heating a home, if you are replacing a low efficiency furnace with a high efficiency one, buy a bigger one than you had. 80K BTUs output in a high efficiency furnace will not heat the same size home as an 80K BTU low efficiency furnace.
Ask me how I know. All I will say at this point is thank God I had the foresight to keep the wood stove for backup! _________________ Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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baldessariclan Samba Member

Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 1990 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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Heat pumps can work efficiently in extremely hot or cold climates, but to do so there’s bit of a “catch” — you need a relatively large “reservoir” of material/mass at a fairly constant and moderate temperature, to efficiently transfer heat energy into or out of.
This normally takes the form of a “geothermal well” for most systems I’ve seen — the heat gets transferred through water pumped in piping which runs several feet below the surface of nearby soil/dirt. The piping can run horizontally through the ground (shallower digging, but with a bigger surface “footprint”), or vertically (smaller surface “footprint”, but much deeper digging/drilling required).
Either way, it’s not particularly cheap to install one of these geothermal wells, and so tends to make a heat pump that’s efficient electrically maybe not so efficient economically — no free lunch… _________________ 1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 23039 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Electric vehicles are bad |
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baldessariclan wrote: |
Heat pumps can work efficiently in extremely hot or cold climates, but to do so there’s bit of a “catch” — you need a relatively large “reservoir” of material/mass at a fairly constant and moderate temperature, to efficiently transfer heat energy into or out of.
This normally takes the form of a “geothermal well” for most systems I’ve seen — the heat gets transferred through water pumped in piping which runs several feet below the surface of nearby soil/dirt. The piping can run horizontally through the ground (shallower digging, but with a bigger surface “footprint”), or vertically (smaller surface “footprint”, but much deeper digging/drilling required).
Either way, it’s not particularly cheap to install one of these geothermal wells, and so tends to make a heat pump that’s efficient electrically maybe not so efficient economically — no free lunch… |
Very good points. That IS the issue with heat pumps.
Over the decades they have repeatedly gotten more compact. This means that the condenser systems have gotten smaller to fit inside the enclosure. In order to get them working properly you need a much larger transfer mass and there has to be enough temperature differential.
Older heat pumps worked better than newer ones but they were not cheap or energy efficient compared to what is out there now.
I was really surprised when I moved back to Oklahoma that it's really common in order to get your heat pump equipped system to keep up with heating when it drops into the mid to high 20s.....they are all equipped with what is called "EM heat" mode.
When the heat pump cannot keep up in colder weather, the gas furnace kicks in in EM heat mode and they both run.
Ray |
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