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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:46 pm Post subject: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Bought a rare item today, Sand/Dirt rail that is registered for the street!
Good thing I am not in Texas as I hear they have been revoking such titles.
Built a while back, no idea who's chassis was used.
"Porsche 914 engine" (Ya, sure, with a single 2V Weber carb.) Bus trans and Bus? trailing arms, brakes, axles.
Link pin front, full drum brakes on all four corners.
Sellers dad bought him new rear tires 33" instead of the 31" that had been on it.
The 33's did not clear the torsion bar caps.
So the genius cut them. Really, he did!
I will have to replace the torsion bars and end caps in order to drive the buggy.
Also want to relocate the spare, no real rearview as it is.
I would like to keep the new tires if they do not ruin the gearing.
Not a fan of wheel spacers.
Is there a reasonably simple/inexpensive way to shorten up the torsion bar caps?
I will not be racing this buggy, local dirt trails and street use only.
I can supply pics of the "Custom" modification in a couple o days if needed.
For now a couple pics of what I bought.
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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You can use swingaxle short torsion bars and spring plates. That would require cutting the spring plates to fit.
That's what my '58 Baja has. When I converted the car from swingaxle to IRS, I had the torsion bars and the spring plates. So instead of buying different ones, I just worked with what I had. Still going a couple hundred thousand miles later.
Or just use IRS parts and get 31" tires and sell the 33s.
The frame looks a lot like a Hi Jumper Ascot. But it may be an imitation. Although the front hood is almost certainly Hi Jumper Ascot like mine. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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There is no need to cut down swing axle spring plates to fit IRS suspension anymore as aftermarket spring plates are available. You can even get them with adjusters to tune your suspension.
SwayAway (made in (USA) and Chinese ones available.
Your picture shows a type 4/Porsche 914 engine valve cover. Meaning your engine came out of a VW Bus, 411,412,or 914. Stock sizes were 1.7, 1.8, and 2.0 liters. Great engines. I have one in my buggy that started out as a 1.7 that built into a 2.2 liter. Has a lot of torque for off reading.
If it has a 3 rib Bus transaxle in it, 33in tires work a lot better then 31in tire at highway speeds.
Looks like a lot of fun. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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71StandardReduction Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 715 Location: Louisiana
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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71StandardReduction wrote: |
I'm interested in front tire size information please. |
Yeah, I like the look of those front tires. What brand/size are they? I'd like a front tire that's a little more pavement friendly than the Yokos that are on my Baja now. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Those look like the old BFG 7.00-15 tires available about 25 years ago. They were made in Mexico. Wish BFG still had them. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:23 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Putting more funds into the sellers hand tomorrow, balance once he gets the title from DMV.
I will take a camera for pics. |
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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Got more pics of what I am getting.
Looks like 002 three-rib trans, so very low gears and the 33's may be needed?
Car is from Fallon NV, anyone know it?
Been off the trails for a few years.
Rear suspension, I think Bus.
More rear.
Front brake.
Tall front with reinforcement.
The front tire that was being asked about, TOYO 7.00-15
The spring plate butchery.
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71StandardReduction Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 715 Location: Louisiana
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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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First thing I need to figure out is what length torsion bars?
I have a junk 70 bug, probably not the right ones as they use a nearly flat cap and the old ones had a long extension. |
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71StandardReduction Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 715 Location: Louisiana
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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The torsion bar length you need for tire clearance is the 21-3/4in long that came in 1961 to 1967 Bugs.
For off road use I would go with a larger diameter then the stock of 22mm. Something like a 25-26mm diameter 21-3/4in long.
On my own buggy I am using aftermarket adjustable spring plates. With them you can change preload and height of rear suspension.
One of my buggies I was using on the street had the 3rib Bus transaxle with a 5.38 ring and pinion. I was using 20 some odd years tires that were 33in tall. Had to finally replace them. Went with 31in tires, really raised my cruising RPMs to uncomfortable levels.
Switch to a 091 transaxle with 4.56 R&P to use 31in tires. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12730 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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If it really is Bus torsion bars and with all those shocks you will have a bone jarring ride like you have never experiance before!
I am not exaggerating here, it's real. I have a compression fracture on one vertebra from mine and all it has for shocks is a pair of worn out stock ones!
Check to see if the seller is in a body cast! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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kbwakesk8 Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2005 Posts: 1499 Location: Hacienda Heights CA
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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Somewhere on this site I should be able to find the difference in weight for type 4 vs standard Bug engine.
I know the type 4 is heavier.
Weight would affect how heavy the torsion bars need to be. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12730 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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True, the type 4 engine is heavier by about 60 pounds if I recall correctly. I put one in my street Buggy which has stock Beetle suspension and it dropped the rear by - maybe an inch at the very most. You have a spare tire back there and likely a battery, maybe a fuel tank too? Well - so does the VW Bus and it was still advertised as having a 1 ton load capacity. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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The weight of the type 4 engine like yours is not that much more then a type 1.
Getting rid of the stock heater boxes takes away a lot of weight.
I been using type 4 engines in buggies since the 1970s. Still using one now.
I converted to upright cooling system (like a type 1 uses) many years ago with a different system then I have now.
With the upright cooling system it weighs approximately a 20lbs more then a type 1 engine and most of that is from die cast aluminum engine case. Yes the stock type 4 fan housing weighs a little more then the upright conversion, but not that much more.
The sand cast aftermarket aluminum type 1 engine case is 17lbs heavier then a type 1 magnesium case
The last picture shows after a 3in body lift and longer travel suspension upgrade. Trailing arms are 1-1/2in longer for tires to clear 26-9/16in 23.5mm torsion bars (stock type 3). I like a soft ride. Weighs approximately 1800lbs now with all the extra steel in the chassis.
Installing dual carbs such as Weber (or copy) 40IDF will have more power even if engine is stock otherwise.
_________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Hope to get it home in the next couple of days.
First thing to do will be a pressure wash to get rid of years of accumulated dirt and mouse leavings.
From there I will tackle the suspension and brakes.
No doubt some wiring and lights too.
This is to become my main daily driver except for when it is just too cold for an open car. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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You are going to have a lot of fun driving your buggy in the dirt and on the street. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Richard/SIA Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2015 Posts: 102 Location: No. Nevada
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Bought a dirt buggy today, suspension repair question. |
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Got it home today.
Next up is a pressure wash then off the trailer and into the workshop.
Then I may begin fixing the suspension, do an oil change, make it a driver. |
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