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jorel_dj Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 22
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:14 am Post subject: Loss of power and then stall |
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Hey everyone. I was wondering if you guys have any advice on this: I have a 1993 Eurovan Multivan poptop (5speed) and had a problem when coming back from Havasu from the recent Buses by the Bridge.
On my way back the engine started to lose power and eventually it shut off.
This happened around Indio, I was loaded with my wife and kid and camping gear, going uphill with the AC on and driving between 65-70 mph. Around 3750 RPM or so. I felt something akin to a miss and then that’s when things started to slow down and eventually shut off. It felt like when an aircooled VW over heats. Gradual power loss then dead.
I pulled over for a minute and then was able to start it again and drive to our lunch destination.
After lunch the car seemed to be running warmer than it should, nothing very high on the needle but the indicator was higher than I would expect for being on relatively flat ground. By this time I turned off the AC and kept the car around 65 but the same thing happened twice more before I turned off the fwy and decided to have it towed.
I’ve since taken it to my mechanic but they are unable to recreate the problem after driving it around for over 30 minutes.
I've reached out to another local shop that specializes in Eurovans and checked the vacuum line to the ECU, it's in good shape and the ground wire to the coil looks good (covered in road grime but tight and the wire is in good shape).
I’m wondering if this sounds like anything you guys have come across before? I haven't had the problem come up since, but now I'm nervous about taking it on any long trips because I haven't figure out what is going on yet.
Thanks |
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wannabecamper Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2019 Posts: 211 Location: Sunnyside, US
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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You should hook it to a scanner and see whether it is fuel or spark related. But... I can share my shade tree mechanic experience. I had a similar issue, but mine wasn't a gradual power loss. It cut out completely when warm. It would restart after awhile and cut out again. I replaced the coil and the distributor magnetic pickup after surfing the web for awhile. Problem solved. But don't know which one it actually was. Coil is easy. Start with that if you want to start throwing money at it. |
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jorel_dj Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 22
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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Cool - I'll give that a shot. It's just odd that I haven't been able to make it happen again. |
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jorel_dj Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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I swapped the coil but it's still happening. I just got back from a two week vacation and on the first day the same thing happened. Ran great all the way out to zion then leaving zion to go to hotel it crapped out on me twice before I made the hotel. just sputter and then die. I ran the car 8 hours the next day and it ran fine. No problems with long distance distance driving for almost two weeks. Then the second to the last day it happened again going from Jackson Hole to Provo. It happened once, I pulled over, swapped the fan relays because I thought I did not hear the fans run when I was in Zion and off I went to my hotel. The next day going from Provo to St George it died again and kept dying. I would let it cool for a bit and I could get it to run for a bit maybe 20-30 minutes then it would die.
I looked online and saw that some people have issues with "relay 30"; the ECU relay. Has anyone had any experience with a bad ECU relay? Can you tell me if you had a VR6 or 5 cyl? can you tell me if this sounds like what happened to you?
The only other thing I can try is the magnetic pick up. Do 5 cyl have a crank or cam senor? Anybody have one of those go out and can you tell me about symptoms?
Also as I have had more experience with this it feels more like it misses and then cuts out rather than a loss of power. It's miss, miss, then dead. |
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Skitter Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2020 Posts: 7 Location: Richmond, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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Had a similar experience with my Jetta way back when and it turned out to be my fuel pump. It would happen when it got hot outside and or when the car was under a load. Also check your fuel relay but when the fuel relay is bad it usually just goes out. Even if these aren't your problems, you have high mileage, and these were never done, I would change these two parts just for peace of mind since it sounds like you take a lot of long road trips. |
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jorel_dj Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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Swapped the fuel pump last year. So in theory it should be good but I guess it could be bad. Seems there are lot of "new" parts that a DOA these days. Will look for a fuel pump relay and swap that also. Interestingly my fuel pump relay is labeled as "80" instead of what I see as standard "167". Are all of your fuel pump relays labeled as 167? It looks like 80 is for other VWs but not Eurovan. Could it be that this relay sorta works but is not correct therefore cuts out over time? |
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Skitter Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2020 Posts: 7 Location: Richmond, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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Regarding the fuel relay being 80 instead of 167, i’ve heard of this but I don’t think there’s anything substantial backing this up as a problem like you’re having as with the ECU 30 relay. My own experience with relays it’s usually working or not working. The fact that you seem to have your problems only when the engine is hot or has been running awhile sounds like it could be something else. I don’t think it’s your hall sensor either and you know it’s not your coil so i would rule out anything with the ignition. Try checking all your vacuum hoses and connectors. You’ll be surprised how much these effect engine performance. I had a slight leak on my EV’s vacuum hose that went to the ECU and it made the engine stall out when i was stopped at a stop light in Phoenix on a hot summer day. It didn’t repeatedly stall out the engine like your experiencing but it did hiccup a lot when I left off the gas and caused the engine light to come on. Forgot what code it through but the description on the code was for a intake leak. |
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smores Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2020 Posts: 91 Location: RNO
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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My 1993 MV does exactly this. It's caused quite the inconvenience a few times with the whole family in it camping.
Same symptoms exactly. When it's hot, it just maybe does a sputter and then nothing.. After about 30 min of cooling off it'll restart and usually be fine. I've never seen the coolant gage go above half when this happens.. Also I've never thrown a code at all when checked with VCDS
I've now replaced:
1. Hall Sensor
2. Coil
3. Intake air sensor
4. MAP sensor
5. Oxygen Sensor
With all that replaced, it still did it.
Now I've also:
6. Blue ECT sensor.
7. Fuel pump relay with an 80.
Which is pretty much all the sensors besides TPS that the ECU uses.
Also I've cleaned the EVAP lines and tank, and disassembled and cleaned the vent mechanism in the fuel tank.
However 6 and 7 were done in the fall, so I haven't had any heat to drive it in up here in Reno. Let me know if you find a fix, and I'll let you know if I do too! |
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EuroTec Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2020 Posts: 378 Location: Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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This sounds like a fuel pump issue. Many threads of this same problem. I had it with my EV. Finally confirmed it was the fuel pump by installing a fuel pressure gauge and when it died, I had no fuel pressure.
If you replaced the pump with anything besides a VDO pump, I would suspect that's the problem.
Go with a VDO pump. They cost more but it's well worth it.
My documentation in another thread. Scroll down a few posts and read.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20 _________________ If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
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BatesEV Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2019 Posts: 182 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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Well something that is cheap to try is the ignition switch. They are about 6 dollars and easy to change. With time it will wear out and can cause some strange issues. The ECU is very sensitive to voltage.
Another thing that should be done is what I call the chicken dance. Basically it’s a learn procedure for the ECU to set the baseline idle and timing. On that the idle speed is set by a air bleed screw not by the throttle stop screw |
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So-33 Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2013 Posts: 6 Location: Everett wa
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Loss of power and then stall |
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Ok, I’ll put my answer to hesitation/misfire/power loss/only when engine is at full operation temperature/operating at 2,000-3,000 RPM under load/mainly on uphill inclines.
My subject is a 1995 Eurovan 2.5 Winnebago camper.
Before you start changing parts or taking to supposable experts in Eurovan’s for their assessment fees or purchasing that $275 dealer service manual, (worthless to my problem)
Check the 5” long vacuum hose 3/16”? line that’s behind the the radiator around the level of the spark plugs about middle of the engine.
Replaced and all-good for me. Van hasn’t missed a beat since then.
My 2+ year ordeal was solved.
What happened from my limited knowlege is. I had oil Leak at block sensor that dripped oil on the vacuume line that was buried below it. That got rubber gummy and collapsed the line that you can’t see because its covered in a cloth wrap and buried behind the radiator.
The vacuume line goes to a valve called Secondary Air Injection (only needed for starting in first minute) this left it in open position feeds too much air to fuel injection) I could be wrong about what the valve is called due to the piss poor diagrams and descriptions in the dealer service manual.
I hope this helps in your situation.
I dedicate this reply to that guy that started looking for help in many different forum starting in 2008 and came up empty. |
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