Jay's 2275 build

[55rag]

Hello All,
I started a post a long while back but I was really asking for opinions on my seized motor and what direction to go. I wanted to start a new post to document the engine I'm building.

I have most of the parts so far but the actual build is going slow due to work schedule. I'm hoping to have this put together in the next couple months.

This motor will eventually be going in my 67 Ghia convertible for weekend fun. Let me know what you think.

I'm going for 9.5:1 compression.

New AS41 case – CIP1
• Clearance for 82mm stroke/94mm cylinder
• Bushed lifter bores – Brothers Machine
• Hoover mods – drilled oil gallery, cam brg oil grooves enlarged – Brothers Machine and me
• Oil galleries drilled/tapped –Brothers Machine
• Oil pump outlet drilled/tapped for full flow - Me
• Deburred - Me
• Head studs – Chromoly – CB Performance
• Tig brazed oil pickup extension - Kielbasa

Dynamic balancing – Brothers Machine
82mm crank – Empi – Appletree Automotive
5.4 rods – VW journal/ARP bolts – Empi – Appletree Automotive
• Small end clearance for my wrist pins – Brothers Machine
94mm Pistons/cylinder – Mahle – Old stash
• Gene Berg wrist pin keepers
• Clearance cylinder fins for case half bolts - Me
• .090 shims (actual measurement of .087)
Heads – Tims stage II
• 42x37mm valves
• Intakes port matched
• Welded and drilled for 12mm spark plugs
• Added missing air deflectors – Awesome Powdercoat
Cam – Web Cam 86b – EP12 – Dan Ruddock
Cam gear – straight cut - Competition Engineering
Lifters – CB Performance – 1537 28mm Ultralight
• Hoover mod grooves - Me
Pushrods – Probably will use Dan Ruddock aluminium
Pushrod tubes – JayCee
Rockers – 1.4 ratio/ .060 shaved blocks – Dan Ruddock
• Hoover mod oil grooves – Me still need to do

Bearings
• Mains – Silverline – Had to mix two sets – Pierside Parts
• Oil groove clearance - Me
• Rods – Metal Leve – old stash I had
• Cam – Mahle blue box – Pierside Parts
• Sanded down for .004 end play - Me
• Notched to uncover case oil return groove - Me

Oil pump – Gene Berg 26mm
Oil pump cover – Gene Berg full flow

Flywheel – 12 lb DPR
• Gene Berg pressure plate shim kit
• CB Performance HD gland nut
Pressure Plate – Kennedy 1700 lb (stage 1) - DPR
Clutch - Daiken ?????
Crank pulley – 5lb – CB Performance
Oil sump – 1.5 liter – Gene Berg
• Sump plate – magnetic – Jaycee
• Oil pickup extension brazed - Kielbasa
Oil cooler – new doghouse – CIP1
Distributor – Magnaspark II – CB Performance
Carbs – Weber 45 IDF – CB Performance
• Jet Doctor
• Matched intake ports- Tims
• Surface mounting tabs and clearance for cylinder tin - Me

Exhaust – 1 5/8 stainless steel sidewinder - AA

Engine tin
• Cylinder tin – Awesome Powdercoating
• Fan shroud – Empi
• Venturi ring – Awesome Powdercoating
• Throttle cable roller - Benco
• Hoover bit – Awesome Powdercoating

Sealants Used:
Loctite 545 thread sealant = oil gallery plugs,
Loctite 262 red = case studs,
Loctite 243 blue =
Curil T2 = case halves
Permatex Ultra Gray = cylinder base, type3 block-off, case to external sump, oil pump to case

Lube Used:
StaLube Engine Assembly Lube = crank, rod and cam bearings, distributor drive, oil pump gears, lifter bores
Lucas Assembly Lube = same as above
Cam Shield = Lifters, cam lobes
Brad Penn 20x50 = general lube – This is my air cooled oil of choice.


Measurements:
Heads
• Combustion chamber 57cc
Deck Height
#1 .043 CR 9.8
#2 .046 CR 9.7
#3 .041 CR 9.9
#4 .041 CR 9.9

Mistakes so far:
• Didn’t measure crank to cam clearance before getting parts balanced. Clearance measures .035 and consensus was that was safe enough to move forward.



Here's the workbench.

Modified HF engine stand:

Trying to find runout on the crank.

Opening up the cam oil groove for Hoover mod.

Going full flow even thought the oil pump outlet is plugged I read that it's safe to plug the case side as well.

Chamfered the oil drain at the rear seal a little.

I did my best at smoothing and deburring the case with my dremel.

Ground oil grooves in the lifters.

I had to clearance the cam bearing a tiny bit to uncover the oil drain passage.

Cooking some crank gears.

I measured all the journals with calipers but wanted to check with the plastigage as well.

Here's the inside of the AA sidewinder collector.

Hopefully more to come soon. Thanks
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55 ragtop bug
67 Ghia vert
85 911
18 GTI
Some beat up British bikes

[Teeroy]

1700 Kennedy is Stage 1, Daikin disc is good. I'm running a 26mm pump without problem on my 2007 with all the Hoover mods. Unless you boost it, stock German 8mm studs are more than adequate
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Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[Jason37]

20w50 may be too heavy for a fresh build depending on clearances.

[UK Luke 72]

I echo the above
26mm is plenty, it's what my 2276 has with hoover mods and external oil filter and cooler.
My oil pressure is quite high with 5w40.
Darken super disc will be fine with your stage 1.

What CR are you shooting for?
I loved the 86b
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2276 Beetle build https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670744&highlight=2276+beetle+daily
2276 EFI Conversion https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689172

[Brian_e]

Make sure you deburr those cuts on the lifters. I like to a soft deburring wheel on a bench grinder.

Also, don’t get all excited once it’s to a short block and start sealing up the case. Make 100% sure you do a COMPLETE mock-up before doing anything with sealer or final assembly. Complete meaning all the way out to the tin. All rocker geometry done, head studs cut to length, deck heights set etc. BEFORE sealing up the short block. Once it’s fully mocked up, then tear it all apart, super clean everything in groups, and then start the final assembly.

This will make the final assembly to much smoother, and it won’t wipe all your cam lube off the lifters while you do the rocker geometry.

Brian
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www.type-emotorsports.com

[Glenn]

I have a KEP Stage 1 and ACE Copperhead clutch setup on my similar 2180. No problem launching with a ZF LSD so both wheels grip and no slip on the clutch.

With all the cash you have invested, you might want to look at the COOLED fan shroud. I installed their "Fresh Air" model on a 2017 and its and exact copy of the factory shroud. They also make one that's a copy of the Type 181 non-fresh air.

For oil, I agree that after break in you should run a 10W30.

Last thing, no need to heat the crank gears in an oven. I'v been using a heat gun with the parts laying on a ceramic bathroom tile. I heat them to 225*F and they literally drop on.

Looks to b a nice build, post pictures are you go along.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[Clatter]

Ya, nice build for sure.

One thing i have noticed with my cars has to do with cold-start and warm-up.

While i know you'll hear all kinds of different opinions on the subject,
in my experience my motors are far less happy without a thermostat.
Especially with big 94s, the ring seal and piston/cylinder life is reduced big time without a good warm-up cycle.
Here in cold damp Santa Cruz, and my tendency to go places in the morning and on short trips, warm-up takes a long time, and the motor stays unhappy and cold for far longer without the t-stat and flaps.
Even with a nice lean mixture, ring seal takes a beating when I'm forcing the motor to be driven along, as the cylinders are being blasted with cold air from the outside before they can come up to temp and correct clearances.
Doing a before/after showed a huge difference for me.

If you can, also consider putting in flaps, even if your exhaust won't allow a t-stat.
With the China fan shroud, no flaps allow air that should be forced through the head to take an easier way around through the cylinders.

Since you're taking the time to suss out so many other little airflow details it makes sense to also pay attention to the big ones.

Nice work.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Glenn]

[Olli from NJ]

You can always add these fixed flaps to help direct the airflow.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2516525

[55rag]

Thanks for all the great replies.

You are all right, this is an expensive engine. I didn't plan on it going that way but once you get started it get's hard to compromise. Plus the fact that prices for all parts have gone way up because of shortages. Anyway I think I've done a ton of reading and it amazes me how much I don't know and some of your replies have proven it.

So I learned tonight:
My pressure plate is stage 1 not 2 (I knew that but I was testing).

Seems like the Daiken plate should hold fine. I also don't plan on drag starts.

I don't need chromoly head studs. Is there an issue if I do use chromoly head studs vs stock? I already have the chromoly but I'd have to find stock?

My oil choice is too thick. I've used 20w50 in all my air cooled engines forever. I'm okay being wrong but will 10w30 work for me in SoCal? I live in Orange County so it doesn't get scorching hot or freezing cold. Also, what is the suggestion for break in oil?

I do plan on assembling the engine before final sealing. I didn't think of fitting tin and all that but it's a good idea. I will really need help with the rocker geometry once I get to that stage. I've read a ton about it but it just doesn't click with me. I'm a little slow.

I did run a 2000 grit roll over those lifter cuts. Does it look like they need more work?

Glenn and Clatter, I don't think my exhaust will allow for the thermostat. Another thing I've never ran are the flaps/thermo. I've never had an engine that came with them. I get that they are for a quicker warm-up but I guess I just don't drive my car enough to notice the increased longevity. I didn't even know there was someone remaking the fan housing ie. COOLED. I checked those out and they look fantastic but I'm vain and I like the small fan housing I have. This engine also has to fit my oval engine compartment for the break in so that big fan shroud get problematic.

Can I use those static flap inserts that Olli pointed out? Never seen those either but could that be a compromise that would work?

By the way, I am going for 9.5:1 compression.

Thanks for all the info.
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55 ragtop bug
67 Ghia vert
85 911
18 GTI
Some beat up British bikes

[Lingwendil]

10W30 will do fine for you. Pick your favorite high ZDDP brand.

As for mocking up and fitting tin, it's absolutely a good idea. I had my block together and apart half a dozen times before final assembly and final torque. Back before the final assembly I mocked up all the tin, and found I needed to bend and trim a lot, even on stock shroud and tin. The manifolds in particular would have been a total pain in the ass to fit into the head tin in the car, I'm super glad I did it while on the stand. Had to bend and trim to get them to go in, and to get all the various bits to line up.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[KEGZ]

I've only EVER used VR1 20w50 in my flat-four motors. First suggested by Kris Lauffer. But also by other builders as well. Shawn Geers, Dan Lawson, Dave Forbis, Bill Shearer.

[richierich]

[55rag]

I haven't got much further since my last post but I am going to order those Andrig static flaps for my 36hp fan shroud. I'll shoot pics when I install them.

In the meantime, I'm taking a much needed break from work and going camping. Ah, a few days in the desert to howl at the coyotes will be great..
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55 ragtop bug
67 Ghia vert
85 911
18 GTI
Some beat up British bikes

[JaredJ]

I know this sparks a debate but why not the 30mm oil pump? If VW switched to 30mm when they added an external filter then why is it too much? Also, if you look at the builders choice kits that CB sells or even the Scat longblocks they both use 30mm pumps. The EMPI external filter kits also use the 30mm pump. I'm confused as to why the suggestion to use 26mm instead.

I'm building a 1904 for my '67 Baja to replace the 1500 in it now and I was told to use a 30mm pump with full flow and a filter. I'm lost.

[jpaull]

[evanfrucht]

In So Cal I'd reccomend 10w40 in the summer and 10w30 in the winter. 20w50 is OK for an older tired engine but a new build their is no reason. Warm weather has a significant (more than one might expect) effect on oil temp and that affects oil pressure. Thick oil won't provide proper "splash" oiling required in a type 1 engine.

Once you get the engine started for the first time and measure your oil pressure you can go from there.

Do yourself a favor a get a Gene Berg gland nut... and honeslty I'd go with a CB Maxi pump instead of the Gene Burg pump. But if you've already gone ahead with prepping the pump I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Sounds like a fun build
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )

[Michael Ambrozik]

I would look at different push rods. The spring pressures in the Tim's stage 2 heads and Web86B cam may cause the alum push rods to bend. Just my 2 cents.

[Shane Tuttle]

[Shane Tuttle]

Oh, I forgot. I don't have direct experience with Andrig's fixed flaps. But I corresponded with him the last couple of days and he was very responsive to my emails.