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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Spring break is over an back at it a bit. I have the seam fully welded now using the spot here - cool - spot there method. It looked goobery after the continuous dot-to-dot, but if that is what it takes to keep the warpage down, so be it.
Ground it down on the outside and removed the temporary braces for roof height and side position. She is standing free now! Not welded at the bottom though.
One question for the experts. The inside of the seam was still fairly spotty and shows where there is not continuous penetration. I am still learning how best to do this kind of task. I had the welder power at a higher setting as evidence of some good penetration but when you spot next to another, it takes even more heat to break through. I am just not liking the weakness of an incomplete weld.
I do have options. 1. Weld it on the inside with the MIG at high travel speed and seal it up (I fear warpage). 2. Spot weld from the inside just where the gaps are or 3. Some technique using my TIG to close it up as needed.
What do the experts think I should do? _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9863 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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I hit a spot, then 6 inches away, another, and another 6 another. Stop welding. Blow air on both sides till I can rub my hand on it. I now have added taking a wet rag and blowing air after that. Thanks Clatter!!!
Then, back onto welding a spot. I start at the inside edge of the last spot that was welded. Then add another spot to each of the other “starter” spots. Air, water, air, till cool once again.
Then, back onto welding a spot. I start at the inside edge of the last spot that was welded. Then add another spot to each of the other “starter” spots. Air, water, air, till cool once again.
Then, back onto welding a spot. I start at the inside edge of the last spot that was welded. Then add another spot to each of the other “starter” spots. Air, water, air, till cool once again.
You picking up what I am laying down? Overlapping welds, then cooling the panel down.
Slow and cool! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:44 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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There are only a handful of ovals left in the world that are one family cars.
You are indeed fortunate to still have that car -and the car is fortunate to have you.
Full marks for doing it justice now.
Enjoy the journey - and the destination! _________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Thank you Riff Raff.
I am taking my time and doing my best. It is slow going for me now just due to the rest of life getting priority.
Jimbo, I will try the wet rag approach. I had not thought of that to speed the cooling. I think I will just spot MIG the inside gaps that remain. MIG is so much faster than TIG, at least at my skill level. _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Finished the patchwork on the inside weld. Turned out good, I think. After final grinding and some dolly work it is taking a good shape. I used a steel ruler to verify the contour, and lots of checks by hand too. I had a few spots I shrunk with the Vevo carbon rod torch. It does not really work so good, but I think I got some of the high spots down. Those are the black marks in the pic.
Sharpie and sanding shows the miniscule highs/lows. They are hard to feel by hand but the ink does not lie. I am going to call it good for now. I tacked it down to the old heater channel to keep it in place while I work forward.
The door got some attention now. A few dents to massage out. Still working on it here. The crease line has a depressed area that needs to be pulled out. I will call on the zig-zag wire dent puller on that. Got a small dent out of the window frame area too using the weld on washers. Tacked the very common crack up by the wing window. I am still thinking of a way to reinforce that area so it wont crack again, in 20 years.
It was a good day, especially due to moving on from that quarter panel. _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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More focus on the door problems this weekend. Lots of spot welder blind dent pulling at various locations. Still learning how best to use this gadget but it sure is handy. Some small dings, with the largest few up near the body line.
I started with the body line and the zig zag wire and tugging/slight slide hammer. The numbers represent the gap from the straight edge, and the outermost marks are the limits of the ding. Then switched over to the keys to do a tight gang pull. Horizontal at the dent then vertical.
Used the rings at the small dings. The hammer pry was NOT the right thing to do. Pulled up too much on one spot and left a peak.
Repeated tugs and check with a straight edge.
Ooohhh, aaahhhh! The profile is coming back!
This low spot was shallow so I used the spot picker (pecker?). I found this does only small moves but then the metal says no more. I can only guess that to many hot spots is doing micro shrinks or work hardening. Additional pulls just don't make a difference. Fortunately I could get a stubby hammer sideways in the door cavity and work it that way.
_________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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tehillah1 Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009 Posts: 256 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 6:19 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Impressive detail work.
I've never seen the weld on apparatuses that you are using. Do they require a special welder to tack them on? Body/metal work is a new universe for me so learning which tools are right for the job at hand is part and parcel of the skillset I suppose. |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 9:14 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Hi tehillah1,
It is this spot welder kit.
VEVOR Spot Puller Bonnet Dent Repair Welder 220v. Check their site.
Here it is on my tool cart.
_________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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tehillah1 Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009 Posts: 256 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 10:44 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Thanks for the response Dan. I saw this earlier in your thread but not the various attachments that you used to fine tune your door.
I can see where this could be very handy once I get to doing some of the panel work my car needs and working the impact dents the 'ol 55 has all around on it. Thusfar all of my repairs have been in no see-um areas...wheel wells, bumper supports, under carpet areas... |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Got the door roughed out now so all that remains on it is very minor metal finishing, after I get it stripped and de-rusted. Found and fixed all the minor dings using the dent puller. Welded a couple cracks, and the common ice pick door handle ding/hole. Noticed the random sanding pattern in the door looks kinda like a rabid dog chasing something!
Moved onto the A-pillar that got peeled to the inside by the door getting jacked in the accident. Main objective today was to pull things back into position, and see if I can get the door to sit properly, or at least not be lifted at the back.
I have my car on a heavy I-beam dolly to move it around the shop, and I rigged up a panel pulling mast to use with a porta power or come along. I used it today on the A-pillar. Welded a tab on the hammered pinch seam and put some force on it as I worked out a small kink in the lower left corner of the dash. Compared it with the other side with a profile gauge. There is also a 'bend line' just off vertical I had to reshape back to correct profile too.
I discovered the original factory seam where the dash meets the 'leg' of the a-pillar. I just assumed before those were one stamping but I guess not. Then I started cutting away the bashed metal.
Got two drilled out hinge bolts out using the weld-a-nub technique. Happy camper here. I am pleased that I can re-use the lower nut plate and reinforcement inner panel. Still strong metal with just surface rust. Got it straightened out enough to relieve the stress on the lower hinge position and the door actually sags now it has some room to flex.
Started on pulling out a crease on the front quarter. Gotta plan out how to proceed from here.
_________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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sunroof Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2006 Posts: 1744 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2022 3:17 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Keep it coming!
Don _________________ Better and better mistakes! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9863 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2022 8:26 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Nice work! And methodical as well. I like the “thinking” element you impart into your typed words. It makes for a great read and draws one in!
That A pillar is a real bitch. Be very aware of the effect it has on the door. Any change to that pillar influences the gaps all the way around the door.
Keep at it! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:20 am Post subject: A pillar in my community! |
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Getting this back to proper shape and contour with the inner plate in place is turning out to be a challenge. The lower hinge mount being exposed is pretty straight forward. But the upper hinge mount had been twisted counterclockwise when the door got shoved in. I was able to pull out the crease that formed at the dash, but the outer quarter panel still showed signs of remaining tweakage. The pinch seam also was not matching the other (good) side of the car. No pic but the outer sheet metal had a 'flat spot' indicating the twist as well.
~2mm gap.
So I rigged up an extension lever to my old hinge plate and tightly bolted it to the pillar. A scrap bar and some thick washers welded to make an attachment for some leverage.
Then I anchored the lower hinge by welding a temporary plate to the heater channel, and anchored that to my frame rack. Otherwise this would flop around.
I am thinking yeah, I can just lift up on this here bar and tweak it all back nice and perfect. NO. VW made this part quite stiff in this direction and the applied twisting force was not going to reverse the original damage. I was afraid of making something worse. I needed another plan.
Rather than just twist, I decided I needed to pull with a twist. After all this is the direction the hit took place. Time to rig up my hydraulic puller. Chained down the body, and welded a plate to the pillar that had several holes so I can move the tugging force where needed. Also added a stiffener to turn my hinge lever into a support pusher to counteract the tugging force. No need to bend the whole car body over! Here is that setup.
In the pic above, you can kinda see the 'flat spot' just below the hinge. The defroster tube is removed so the inside is fairly accessible.
Well, I was able to get the 2mm gap back to less than 1mm which is close enough. This fold line is not super precise or critical but it is a visible shape feature that could be noticeable when eying down the body with nice shiny new paint. Turns out I had to quit when I ripped off the weld plate from the force. Did I mention that the pillar frame is quite strong in this direction??
From there, I worked out the flat spot from the inside, and now the profile matches the other side. A whole weekend spent doing just this reshaping. To celebrate, I plopped the new lower pillar panel on to see how it will look.
As they say at my work "Every day, a little up". It is a translated Japanese slogan. _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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sunroof Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2006 Posts: 1744 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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You better make sure of the distance between the lower hinge mount and the heater channel. Both the Virtanen part and the Autocraft were too high and I ended up having to take about half a cm out of the bottom and adding it to the top to get the hinge mount in the right place. It took hours and hours to get the A pillars right.
You can kinda see it here, I trimmed the bottom and welded the flange back on then added a strip to the top to get everything lined up. It was many hours to get this piece to fit acceptably well.
Don _________________ Better and better mistakes! |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Hi Sunroof,
I recall your difficulty in this area on your car. I too have both the Virtanen and the Auto Craft parts. Fortunately for me, both were fairly close. All I had to do to the Virtanen panel was sharpen the flange bends at the bottom and it lined up well to my inner reinforcement panel. Only a mm or so until they were good. Most of my a-pillar inner part and inner fender is still welded to the heater channel so height is preserved. If things go well this weekend, I will have the panel trimmed out and test fitted with the door in place.
I am finding that my door opening is about 2mm wider than spec. I also recall that the gap at the back of the door was about 6mm. Of course I do not trust anything now after the car was wrecked, but I am focusing on a way to get it back. I have not removed the body from the pan yet, on purpose to keep as much stability as possible. One more interesting tidbit is my car had original thicker rubber door wedges. I see the parts book refers to oversize versions, and kept them just in case. The new ones are only the short version (WCM). Since I still need to replace my heater channels, I can work the door opening back to a preferred tolerance, and get the thinner buffers to work.
An additional motivation to get a properly sized door frame is to improve the latch integrity. In the wreck, this door spontaneously opened. It could have been the initial hit tweaked the frame open, or the slam on the drivers side opened the ice pick door handle from the shock. Either way, more latch engagement seems like a good thing to do. _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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tehillah1 Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009 Posts: 256 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 9:52 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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The creativity in tooling/jigs and repair apparatus is great! That is something anyone taking on a resto project should be prepared for and having these ideas for problem solving is gold. Saves a lot of head scratching and standing around looking at the problem for a lot of us. Thanks for keeping the progress reports coming. |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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tehillah1 wrote: |
The creativity in tooling/jigs and repair apparatus is great! That is something anyone taking on a resto project should be prepared for and having these ideas for problem solving is gold. Saves a lot of head scratching and standing around looking at the problem for a lot of us. Thanks for keeping the progress reports coming. |
Thanks tehillah1. Definitely one of the benefits of this forum to see and share things that have been done. I certainly have had to dream up various gadgets and such on this project. More to come from just this weekend!
Continuing the focus on the a-pillar area. I have the outer skin cut back to access the innards, and to try to reshape the remaining outer quarter. Also prepping the skin of the pillar by ensuring the inner brace is in the right place in terms of angle and left/right position.
Reshaping the bend radius line of the flange joint. Backed it up with some angle iron, then worked the bend with some radiused punches.
I found the big bend shape of the pillar skin was not in the right place. It made the panel too wide at the bottom by about 7mm. So, I found some pipe that was close to correct radius, and set up some anchor tabs to hold the panel as I rebent the corner. I had to make a notch in the pipe for the hinge screw hole flare so it would sit properly.
Pipe jig.
Bent back to the proper width 60.7mm according to my other undamaged pillar.
Now the new metal aligns with the old for a butt weld.
I had to also rework the flange at the bottom so it landed properly on the heater channel. It got a little beat up from all the forceful attention. I had to heat it and it still cracked undoing the original radius. I tigged the crack and bent things lower. Looks worse than it is.
I look forward to buttoning this up so I can move on to the final door alignment and heater channel replacement. _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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tehillah1 Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009 Posts: 256 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 5:52 am Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Looks great! I was doing some of the Pipe-in-vice anvil work on a patch piece to repair the front of the heater channel...I had some rebend uglies as well but it all worked out ok (especially given it'll be hidden away)...creative tooling.
Its good to see the forward progress. It spurs my motivation. Thanks. |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 450 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Some side work in recent weeks. Have not had a full day in a while to work on it. But I thought I would do some side work stitching back together the interior support panels. Honing my thin sheet metal welding skills. Everything got bend up so it was a challenge to get the shape back so the cut edges butt back together. The recent cuts were made with a thin body saw or dremel wheel so the kerf accounting was minimal.
The panels do not look so good from crusty paint and rusted sections that are destined to be repaired. I had to cut these out to gain access to the outer rear quarters. Yeah I probably cut it in too many pieces. Some of it was hacked 40 years ago when I did the body work for the original 'restoration'. Patching it back to original look is of course the goal. TIGing and MIGing are both employed.
Summer fun is taking much of my shop time so posts may be few and far. Rest assured it will continue... The bottom edge where it meets the heater channel will be replaced with new metal. _________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9863 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Life and Rebuild of Dad’s Iceland Green 1955 Beetle |
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Very nice update!!! Love seeing your work! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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