Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ride-Fly
Samba Member


Joined: May 25, 2015
Posts: 590
Location: PDX
Ride-Fly is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

Iím going to replace the fuel lines and maybe some other fuel component bits like the fuel rails and injectors, in advance of the engine replacement (ordered Go Westy 2.2L) that will be done by Jason at KTG. There are kits from all the VW aftermarket vendors. Iíve done a basic comparison of kits from GW, Van Cafe, Buslab, Bus Depot and Vanagon.org. Anyone else done a comparison between the different options and come up with things I might have missed?

Probably the most important aspect is that the hose itself is German-made and J30r9 rated. I would think that all the usual suspects carry hose lines that meet this, but one vendor carry hoses that exceed this level. Van Cafe has J30r14 hoses which has a nylon insert to prevent bio-diesel from soaking through but since most vanagons are petrol, doesnít seem useful to me.

Other factors are the type of clamps supplied, how they address the OEM plastic thingy-in-the-firewall, and if the heat shield is supplied and if so, is it OEM or proprietary like Go Westyís. All the vendors include the Fuel Injector upper and lower seals. If I buy new injectors, either from GW or Mansispeed, itíd be redundant. Anyways, hereís my assessment.

GW- $113/ ear clamps/ no Heat Shield/ grommet Fire Wall adapter

Van Cafe- $128/ cheap worm clamps/ no HS/ proprietary FW adapter

Buslab- $86/ ear clamps/ OEM style HS/ no FW adapter/ hoses are pre-cut

Bus Depot- $100/ Mercedes style clamps/ no HS/ sleeve FW adapter

Vanagon.org- $80/ ear clamps/ no HS/ grommet FW adaptor

Vanagain- I didnít include theirs because their kit doesnít include the FI seals, and the 12mm hose and clamps. I canít tell if his kit includes the cheap worm drive clamps. Still, if I get new injectors and rails, I may piecemeal the parts from Ken, as long as the clamps are either ear style or MB style.

From looking at this non-Excel spreadsheet, Iím inclined to go with Buslab and adding a FW grommet from GW. What do you guys/gals think? Thanks!
_________________
1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more Sad
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Syncronoid
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1032
Location: Atherton, CA and Bend, OR
Syncronoid is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

Which ever kit you finally decide, you are definitely going about it the right way and doing the research. Kudos.
_________________
'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 20084
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

How much line do you need? Iíve got a couple of spools of fuel injection line that are paid off, oetikers sre $1 each from Fastenal

Isnít this like $30 of kit all in?
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
clift_d
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2012
Posts: 256
Location: Hackney innit, UK
clift_d is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

It's worth highlighting that generic fuel hose, with an SAE 30R9 or SAE 30R14 specification, may only have been tested for compatability with fuel that has a 5% (E5) ethanol content, as this is the minimum that is required under the SAE J30 standard - the relevant section for R9 is section 4.5 on page 7, and for R14 section 4.10 on page 8.

The decent manufacturers ensure that their fuel hose exceeds the requirements of R9 or R14 - for example the stuff that Brickwerks in the UK sell, or a product like Gates Barricade, which are both also rated for 100% (E100) ethanol content.

Given that many countries are already using fuel with 10% ethanol content (E10), you will need to be careful to check what you're getting before you buy generic hose online.
_________________
1988 LHD T25 1.6TD Westfalia Club Joker syncro


Last edited by clift_d on Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
djkeev Premium Member
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 30508
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!

https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/

These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.

One needs a proper crimping tool to PROPERLY install the Oetiker pinch clamps.
You cannot just squeeze the tab with a pair of pliers and call it good.
Properly installed only the sides are squeezed tight under the bulge of the top WITHOUT cutting the tab.
The result is a fairly flat top with the undersides tucked neatly in.

Most people do NOT own this tool. They use pliers or end cutters.
Thus screw clamps are actually a better option for them.

Many install pinch clamps with the wrong tools. They work..... but........

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.


Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4421
Location: Arizona Highways
borninabus is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

i went with the crimp clamps one time and really cursed when two weeks later had to disconnect some fuel line for another task. never again. ABA reusable clamps are the best choice, IMO.

fuel line and clamps and sleeves are out there all over the place. if you feel like supporting a vanagon vendor and want to buy one of their kits, that's cool. i get it. they've done the work for you and charge accordingly. but i would recommend sourcing some line/clamps/sleeves from somewhere that isn't van-centric and in turn saving your coins for something that is really specialty that you will need to pay a premium for.
_________________
71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jAndrew
Samba Member


Joined: October 11, 2020
Posts: 303
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
jAndrew is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

I know everyone has different income and budgets, I really get that. But I will go out on a limb and say if you do not have $30 for the ear clamp pliers then you cannot afford a Vanagon. With that tool I can't see how it can be messed up- even a tool like me can use them.

ABA clamps on connections you may need to disconnect more often maybe.
_________________
'89 Syncro Doka
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
revolution337
Samba Member


Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 323
Location: Pennsylvania
revolution337 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

Knipex 10 99 i220 are the pliers you want for crimping those Oetiker clamps. They are nice because you can use them straight on, or at 90* if space is limited. Made in Germany, very high quality.

https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-Tools-10-99-i220/dp/B01I3H6UIC

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
-Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SyncroHead Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 23, 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Northern Nevada
SyncroHead is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

Size Matters.

Proper size is 7mm.
Not 7.94mm (5/16")
Not 8mm.
5/16" = .3125" = 7.94mm. VW definitely didn't use 7.94mm hose.

But it's "close enough", right? In a pinch if that's what the FLAPS had, but I wouldn't order 5/16".

5/16" is 13.4% larger than 7mm.

To put that in perspective, imagine this scenario...
You wear 32" waist pants and the store is out of 32" pants. The sales person tells you, "We have 36.5" waist pants, they'll fit just fine." You definitely wouldn't buy and wear the 36.5" pants.
How much larger is 36.5" compared to your properly fitting 32" pants? 13.4%, the same as between 7mm and 5/16". Properly fitting fuel lines are much more important than properly fitting pants!

But, many people use 5/16" line and report it works fine. Probably, and Iíd substitute if I had to. But given a choice, I would not take use over-sized lines in a fuel system.

Recommend brands are COHLINE 2240 or Gates Barricade.

Jim Davis[/i]
_________________
"A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"

Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org

sphet wrote:
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ride-Fly
Samba Member


Joined: May 25, 2015
Posts: 590
Location: PDX
Ride-Fly is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
How much line do you need? Iíve got a couple of spools of fuel injection line that are paid off, oetikers sre $1 each from Fastenal

Isnít this like $30 of kit all in?


I suppose the standard amount that comes in a kit- 12 ft of 7.9mm HP hose, and 2 ft of 12mm LP hose. I guess I could and maybe should buy them individually at the local VW shops but they tend to gouge you. When I did the shifter service, I bought the boots at one of Halsey, they were charging $20 a boot! I stopped giving them by business after that.


clift_d wrote:
It's worth highlighting that generic fuel hose, with an SAE 30R9 or SAE 30R14 specification, may only have been tested for compatability with fuel that has a 5% (E5) ethanol content, as this is the minimum that is required under the SAE J30 standard - the relevant section for R9 is section 4.5 on page 7, and for R14 section 4.10 on page 8.

The decent manufacturers ensure that their fuel hose exceeds the requirements of R9 or R14 - for example the stuff that Brickwerks in the UK sell, or a product like Gates Barricade, which are both also rated for 100% (E100) ethanol content.

Given that many countries are already using fuel with 10% ethanol content (E10), you will need to be careful to check what you're getting before you buy generic hose online.


Well now ya have me re-thinking and Iím probably going down the rabbit hole looking for 100% rated hoses! Thanks man! Laughing

SyncroHead wrote:
Size Matters.

Proper size is 7mm.
Not 7.94mm (5/16")
Not 8mm.
5/16" = .3125" = 7.94mm. VW definitely didn't use 7.94mm hose.

But it's "close enough", right? In a pinch if that's what the FLAPS had, but I wouldn't order 5/16".

5/16" is 13.4% larger than 7mm.

To put that in perspective, imagine this scenario...
You wear 32" waist pants and the store is out of 32" pants. The sales person tells you, "We have 36.5" waist pants, they'll fit just fine." You definitely wouldn't buy and wear the 36.5" pants.
How much larger is 36.5" compared to your properly fitting 32" pants? 13.4%, the same as between 7mm and 5/16". Properly fitting fuel lines are much more important than properly fitting pants!

But, many people use 5/16" line and report it works fine. Probably, and Iíd substitute if I had to. But given a choice, I would not take use over-sized lines in a fuel system.

Recommend brands are COHLINE 2240 or Gates Barricade.

Jim Davis[/i]


Good points! Any hose that is 7.9mm is out!
_________________
1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more Sad
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
leecat
Samba Member


Joined: September 13, 2012
Posts: 628
Location: Regina
leecat is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

When I changed engines I ordered all German 7mm fuel hose, and it's REALLY nice stuff - plus the stock OEM heavy plastic fuel-line sheathing that goes on the lines directly over the engine will NOT fit over 5/16 line, but fits really nice on the 7mm stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ride-Fly
Samba Member


Joined: May 25, 2015
Posts: 590
Location: PDX
Ride-Fly is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

leecat wrote:
When I changed engines I ordered all German 7mm fuel hose, and it's REALLY nice stuff - plus the stock OEM heavy plastic fuel-line sheathing that goes on the lines directly over the engine will NOT fit over 5/16 line, but fits really nice on the 7mm stuff.


Who did you order from?

What about the LP hose? 12mm or 11.xx size the OEM spec?
_________________
1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more Sad
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
leecat
Samba Member


Joined: September 13, 2012
Posts: 628
Location: Regina
leecat is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:14 pm    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

I ordered from Buslab, if I recall - same product, half the price of the 'major' vendors. Plus they had the protective sheathing at the time, had I needed it.

I think my 12mm was fairly newly installed from the PO, so I did not replace it. I was mostly concerned with the hoses near any spark at the rear of the van.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9620
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

The firewall fitting is useless and should be eliminated to remove a couple potential leak points.

The crimp clamps are a PITA, especially from an on-the-road-repair standpoint.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jAndrew
Samba Member


Joined: October 11, 2020
Posts: 303
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
jAndrew is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

revolution337 wrote:
Knipex 10 99 i220 are the pliers you want for crimping those Oetiker clamps. They are nice because you can use them straight on, or at 90* if space is limited. Made in Germany, very high quality.

https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-Tools-10-99-i220/dp/B01I3H6UIC

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


these are the same ones I have and can attest to the quality.
_________________
'89 Syncro Doka
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 5322
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

jAndrew wrote:
revolution337 wrote:
Knipex 10 99 i220 are the pliers you want for crimping those Oetiker clamps. They are nice because you can use them straight on, or at 90* if space is limited. Made in Germany, very high quality.

https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-Tools-10-99-i220/dp/B01I3H6UIC

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


these are the same ones I have and can attest to the quality.


Now this is neat, side crimping!

Knipex does great tools, I used to be a small hardware store manager in France, I would always twist the arm of the sales rep to get me a freebie tool for myself on my big orders Laughing
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bobbyblack Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 3874
Location: United States, Iowa
bobbyblack is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
The firewall fitting is useless and should be eliminated to remove a couple potential leak points.

The crimp clamps are a PITA, especially from an on-the-road-repair standpoint.


Both of these points are Spot On.

Although I am not against spending good money on good tools, and I do have several Knipex's, yet ANOTHER tool (and bag of fasteners) to carry onboard while out on the road is a hard pill to swallow.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
korfmach
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 231
Location: Fort Collins, CO
korfmach is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!

https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/

These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave


I got those with my line replacement kit. They are indeed good quality. They also leaked, and I replaced them with injection-type screw-down clamps. They seem to work well, and a field repair doesn't require the Oetiker tool.
_________________
1989 Westy
2016 Golf TSI

Gone, but not forgotten:
1974 Dorper Baywindow, "The Bleeding Trout"
1998 Jetta TDI, "Trixie"
1987 GTI, "Heike"
1974 Thing, "The Luftwaffel"
1974 Ghia
1966 Ghia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bobbyblack Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 3874
Location: United States, Iowa
bobbyblack is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

[quote="korfmach"]
djkeev wrote:
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!

https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/

These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave



I've done a few Vanagon fuel line replacements, I agree that the VC clamps are of very good quality. Some times they won't sell you a kit, due to the popularity of those clamps, as they go out of stock fairly quickly. I really appreciate the "email when available" feature, and ordered a spare fuel line kit and a couple dozen extra of the good clamps.

COUNT your VC kit clamps when you get it. COUNT your clamp points BEFORE you start the job. No need to ask why I bought the extra clamps.

Also, if you do get a leak, I suggest you ADD another clamp at that location.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9620
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits Reply with quote

korfmach wrote:
djkeev wrote:
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!

https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/

These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave


I got those with my line replacement kit. They are indeed good quality. They also leaked, and I replaced them with injection-type screw-down clamps. They seem to work well, and a field repair doesn't require the Oetiker tool.


I've used the Van Cafe kit on multiple vehicles and have never had a line leak afterwards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB