| Author |
Message |
termuehlen 
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 994
Location: Redwood City
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:41 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
 |
|
| DanHoug wrote: |
| termuehlen wrote: |
| I have 2 Vanagons. The 5/16" Gates brand high pressure fuel line failed in both of them this year. |
would you be willing to find a section of the Gates hose with the part number intact and post a picture? |
Sorry Dan, willing but not able. I already threw out the old.
_________________
1988 Westfalia automatic Subaru OBD1
1986 syncro tintop wbx |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4790
Location: Bemidji, MN
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| termuehlen wrote: |
| I have 2 Vanagons. The 5/16" Gates brand high pressure fuel line failed in both of them this year. |
would you be willing to find a section of the Gates hose with the part number intact and post a picture?
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6355
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:59 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
I've never had a problem until now.
Mind you, I never had a problem either until yesterday, the fuel filler grommet split in just 4 months. Fucking junk, GW supplied. Probably JP Group garbage, as usual with this brand.
It's becoming hard to get anything good made in rubber , this is a plague!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
termuehlen
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 994
Location: Redwood City
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:41 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
I have 2 Vanagons. The 5/16" Gates brand high pressure fuel line failed in both of them this year.
The Subaru powered Westy was moth-balled over the winter. This spring I removed the engine cover, checked the fluids, connected the battery and started it up. The main fuel supply hose looked like an irrigation soaker hose. Many tiny pinholes spewing gas in all directions. The hose was replaced with the engine conversion 10 years ago. Lesson learned. Don't wait ten years to replace the fuel hose. Fair enough.
The Syncro sat for almost 2 months towards the end of this summer. Opened up the engine cover, checked the fluids, connected the battery. Started it up (I was going to write fired it up, but that seems like a bad idea.) Before I was able to get out and walk to the back, I noticed it smelled rich, followed by it smelled like gas, so shut it down. Walk around back again, and sure enough, the right side fuel rail is soaking wet. In 2018, just over 4 years ago, I pulled the injectors, sent them in for service and reinstalled with Gates hose. In just over 4 years time, the hose is gooey on the inside and leaking between the hose and the fuel rail at the clamp locations.
I don't know if new German made 7mm high pressure fuel hose is going to be an improvement, but I am changing out all of my Gates hose now. I'll let you know in 5 to 10 years how the new hose performs.
_________________
1988 Westfalia automatic Subaru OBD1
1986 syncro tintop wbx
Last edited by termuehlen on Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:29 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
Honestly the 7mm vs 5/16" fuel line debate is over rated.
The smaller the size, the less the small difference makes between mm and imperial sizes.
In my 1/4" sockets, I don't even carry metric sizes because the imperial ones fit just fine.
Same with 1/2" vs 13mm, the difference is so minor that I've rarely encountered a problem swapping them.
I say rarely because I have found a hex or two that were that fussy.
Probably the vast majority of WBX engines on the road with improved fuel lines are running 5/16
I Haven't ever heard of an issue.
I just saw a post by Injector-Rehab, the new miracle injector kid on the block, saying they mistakingly shipped some injector rails with 3/8" barbs instead of the proper 5/16" barbs!
Right there tells you something.......... 5/16" instead if 7mm simply is a non issue.
1mm is about the diameter of a small paper clip wire.
We commonly use 1 1/2" radiator hose without issues, 3/4" heater hose without issues, 5/32" vacuum line ........ there are real concerns in the World to worry about. Your fuel line being 5/16" is NOT one of them.
I have run across situations where you cannot use 1/2" hose on a 12mm fitting (A/C Evaporator drain nipple)
Anyway....... todays opinion for what it is worth.
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3118
Location: Bozeman MT
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
It doesn't allow side-crimping but I bought my Oetiker-branded tool at the local irrigation supply store for about $25 when I was expanding my underground sprinkler system (maybe not every area such a store though).
Removing the clamps is actually super easy if you have a small flathead screwdriver. Just stick it into the "ear" and twist a couple times.
_________________
'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| korfmach wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!
https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/
These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave |
I got those with my line replacement kit. They are indeed good quality. They also leaked, and I replaced them with injection-type screw-down clamps. They seem to work well, and a field repair doesn't require the Oetiker tool. |
I've used the Van Cafe kit on multiple vehicles and have never had a line leak afterwards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4351
Location: United States, Iowa
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:12 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
[quote="korfmach"]
| djkeev wrote: |
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!
https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/
These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave |
I've done a few Vanagon fuel line replacements, I agree that the VC clamps are of very good quality. Some times they won't sell you a kit, due to the popularity of those clamps, as they go out of stock fairly quickly. I really appreciate the "email when available" feature, and ordered a spare fuel line kit and a couple dozen extra of the good clamps.
COUNT your VC kit clamps when you get it. COUNT your clamp points BEFORE you start the job. No need to ask why I bought the extra clamps.
Also, if you do get a leak, I suggest you ADD another clamp at that location.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
korfmach
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 247
Location: Fort Collins, CO
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:03 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| djkeev wrote: |
Just to note.
The Van Cafe kit does indeed supply screw type clamps but to call them "cheap screw clamps" is anything but truth!
https://vancafe.com/fuel-line-replacement-kit/
These appear to be ABA or NORMA clamps which are top quality merchandise.
Dave |
I got those with my line replacement kit. They are indeed good quality. They also leaked, and I replaced them with injection-type screw-down clamps. They seem to work well, and a field repair doesn't require the Oetiker tool.
_________________
1989 Westy
2016 Golf TSI
Gone, but not forgotten:
1974 Dorper Baywindow, "The Bleeding Trout"
1998 Jetta TDI, "Trixie"
1987 GTI, "Heike"
1974 Thing, "The Luftwaffel"
1974 Ghia
1966 Ghia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4351
Location: United States, Iowa
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:02 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| ?Waldo? wrote: |
The firewall fitting is useless and should be eliminated to remove a couple potential leak points.
The crimp clamps are a PITA, especially from an on-the-road-repair standpoint. |
Both of these points are Spot On.
Although I am not against spending good money on good tools, and I do have several Knipex's, yet ANOTHER tool (and bag of fasteners) to carry onboard while out on the road is a hard pill to swallow.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6355
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:54 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| jAndrew wrote: |
these are the same ones I have and can attest to the quality. |
Now this is neat, side crimping!
Knipex does great tools, I used to be a small hardware store manager in France, I would always twist the arm of the sales rep to get me a freebie tool for myself on my big orders 
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jAndrew
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2020
Posts: 306
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:23 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
these are the same ones I have and can attest to the quality.
_________________
'89 Syncro Doka |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:20 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
The firewall fitting is useless and should be eliminated to remove a couple potential leak points.
The crimp clamps are a PITA, especially from an on-the-road-repair standpoint. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leecat
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2012
Posts: 773
Location: Regina
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
I ordered from Buslab, if I recall - same product, half the price of the 'major' vendors. Plus they had the protective sheathing at the time, had I needed it.
I think my 12mm was fairly newly installed from the PO, so I did not replace it. I was mostly concerned with the hoses near any spark at the rear of the van. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ride-Fly
Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015
Posts: 621
Location: PDX
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| leecat wrote: |
| When I changed engines I ordered all German 7mm fuel hose, and it's REALLY nice stuff - plus the stock OEM heavy plastic fuel-line sheathing that goes on the lines directly over the engine will NOT fit over 5/16 line, but fits really nice on the 7mm stuff. |
Who did you order from?
What about the LP hose? 12mm or 11.xx size the OEM spec?
_________________
1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more 
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leecat
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2012
Posts: 773
Location: Regina
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| When I changed engines I ordered all German 7mm fuel hose, and it's REALLY nice stuff - plus the stock OEM heavy plastic fuel-line sheathing that goes on the lines directly over the engine will NOT fit over 5/16 line, but fits really nice on the 7mm stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ride-Fly
Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015
Posts: 621
Location: PDX
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:08 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
How much line do you need? I’ve got a couple of spools of fuel injection line that are paid off, oetikers sre $1 each from Fastenal
Isn’t this like $30 of kit all in? |
I suppose the standard amount that comes in a kit- 12 ft of 7.9mm HP hose, and 2 ft of 12mm LP hose. I guess I could and maybe should buy them individually at the local VW shops but they tend to gouge you. When I did the shifter service, I bought the boots at one of Halsey, they were charging $20 a boot! I stopped giving them by business after that.
| clift_d wrote: |
It's worth highlighting that generic fuel hose, with an SAE 30R9 or SAE 30R14 specification, may only have been tested for compatability with fuel that has a 5% (E5) ethanol content, as this is the minimum that is required under the SAE J30 standard - the relevant section for R9 is section 4.5 on page 7, and for R14 section 4.10 on page 8.
The decent manufacturers ensure that their fuel hose exceeds the requirements of R9 or R14 - for example the stuff that Brickwerks in the UK sell, or a product like Gates Barricade, which are both also rated for 100% (E100) ethanol content.
Given that many countries are already using fuel with 10% ethanol content (E10), you will need to be careful to check what you're getting before you buy generic hose online. |
Well now ya have me re-thinking and I’m probably going down the rabbit hole looking for 100% rated hoses! Thanks man!
| SyncroHead wrote: |
Size Matters.
Proper size is 7mm.
Not 7.94mm (5/16")
Not 8mm.
5/16" = .3125" = 7.94mm. VW definitely didn't use 7.94mm hose.
But it's "close enough", right? In a pinch if that's what the FLAPS had, but I wouldn't order 5/16".
5/16" is 13.4% larger than 7mm.
To put that in perspective, imagine this scenario...
You wear 32" waist pants and the store is out of 32" pants. The sales person tells you, "We have 36.5" waist pants, they'll fit just fine." You definitely wouldn't buy and wear the 36.5" pants.
How much larger is 36.5" compared to your properly fitting 32" pants? 13.4%, the same as between 7mm and 5/16". Properly fitting fuel lines are much more important than properly fitting pants!
But, many people use 5/16" line and report it works fine. Probably, and I’d substitute if I had to. But given a choice, I would not take use over-sized lines in a fuel system.
Recommend brands are COHLINE 2240 or Gates Barricade.
Jim Davis[/i] |
Good points! Any hose that is 7.9mm is out!
_________________
1987 Westy, Dove Blue
1987 Wolfsburg Tintop, Vesuvius Grey no more
1977 Toyota FJ40, Freeborn Red
2018 Ford F-350 Platinum, Ruby Red Metallic
2017 Mercedes GLE350, Polar White |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroHead
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005
Posts: 1145
Location: Northern Nevada
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
Size Matters.
Proper size is 7mm.
Not 7.94mm (5/16")
Not 8mm.
5/16" = .3125" = 7.94mm. VW definitely didn't use 7.94mm hose.
But it's "close enough", right? In a pinch if that's what the FLAPS had, but I wouldn't order 5/16".
5/16" is 13.4% larger than 7mm.
To put that in perspective, imagine this scenario...
You wear 32" waist pants and the store is out of 32" pants. The sales person tells you, "We have 36.5" waist pants, they'll fit just fine." You definitely wouldn't buy and wear the 36.5" pants.
How much larger is 36.5" compared to your properly fitting 32" pants? 13.4%, the same as between 7mm and 5/16". Properly fitting fuel lines are much more important than properly fitting pants!
But, many people use 5/16" line and report it works fine. Probably, and I’d substitute if I had to. But given a choice, I would not take use over-sized lines in a fuel system.
Recommend brands are COHLINE 2240 or Gates Barricade.
Jim Davis[/i]
_________________
"A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
| sphet wrote: |
| I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
revolution337
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 372
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:46 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
Knipex 10 99 i220 are the pliers you want for crimping those Oetiker clamps. They are nice because you can use them straight on, or at 90* if space is limited. Made in Germany, very high quality.
https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-Tools-10-99-i220/dp/B01I3H6UIC
_________________
1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
-Mark |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jAndrew
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2020
Posts: 306
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:36 am Post subject: Re: My rudimentary assessment of Fuel Line Replacement Kits |
|
|
I know everyone has different income and budgets, I really get that. But I will go out on a limb and say if you do not have $30 for the ear clamp pliers then you cannot afford a Vanagon. With that tool I can't see how it can be messed up- even a tool like me can use them.
ABA clamps on connections you may need to disconnect more often maybe.
_________________
'89 Syncro Doka |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
