85 Golf electrical issues. Plus the demise of my other car

[glutamodo]

Long post here. And some of it drifts away from talking about VWs for a while.

I alternate driving my 85 Golf and my inherited 83 Camry to work. I work at a location that uses the Dupont 28-Day Rotation schedule. So I change from Day to Night shift every few days.

I drive the Golf on night shift and the Camry on day shifts. However my 83 Camry has a clutch with 320K on it and starting to slip on hills, especially if the Wyoming Wind is unfavorable. So about one year ago my brother, who knows I only like stick shift cars, spotted a nice deal on a base model, 2002 manual shift Camry that would no longer pass Colorado Emissions due to a worn out cat, and snagged it on my behalf for 1800 bucks. Since it was around my birthday he split the cost with me. And Wyoming doesn't care about emissions.

I wasn't sure at first if I liked this big of a car, it's a lot bigger than the Golf and somewhat bigger than the 83 Camry. But what surprised me was that the 2.4 16V engine actually got better gas mileage than either of those two econobox era cars.

I've been having problems with the Golf dying, usually not long after startup cold. The spark just drops out. I know the VW electronic ignition system well. And never could find anything wrong. Also it seems to fix itself and not stay broken.

Well, then a few weeks ago, about 20 miles out of town, the Golf dies. But this time, I know it's not the spark, because the tachometer was still showing spark. I just felt the loss of power you get when you lose fuel pressure and on a CIS car, this is gradual because of the fuel pressure accumulator in the system, and not the sudden jolt I would get when the ignition drops.

I then tried my best to figure this one out. I actually have two multimeters in the trunk. The fuel pump relay worked fine. I even bypassed it but I guess it was the terminal 30 going through that relay that had dropped out. I didn't have a workshop manual wire diagram, nor a long enough piece of wire to try to run to the battery and bypass it. So I called AAA for a tow back to town and called Work to them I would be very late. Which was fine because work was slow at the time.

Then, when we got the car to my house, and the tow driver turned the key on to unlock the the steering column, and guess what... I heard the fuel pumps kick in for a second in the normal manner for this type car. So: bugger!

That is the bane of being a mechanic: One Can Not Fix That Which Is Not Broken.

And yes, the car now started up just fine. Go figure.

I then tried starting the car every few days and even with a depleted battery due to sitting roadside with the flashers on for well over an hour, it always started. I left the trunk carpet pulled up exposing the transfer pump wiring in case I got a shot to do some kind of troubleshooting there.

Meanwhile I'm driving my 02 Camry exclusively to work.

Then Shit Happened. A few days ago, on the way home from work after night shift , an oncoming semi truck, slowing down to turn in front of me, took a dump upon me. Some MASSIVE chunk of snow and ice detached itself from under the semi's trailer bed, and got kicked out right in front of me with almost no time for me to react. This was was not fluffy snow, it was like hitting an iceberg. It went SMASH into the front of my Camry and I immediately lost control of the car and somehow was past the semi but now on Lightning Creek bridge and careened towards the other lane's guardrail and smashed into it pretty hard. Not hard enough for the airbag to go off though?? It still scrunched the front body up to the doors.

The final irony, this happened about 1/3 of a mile from where my Golf broke down a few weeks before.

So I had to report this to the cops. Who cited me for leaving my lane... as if I any control over the car at the time.

The car, the wrecking company said was too damaged to leave at my house and they put it into their storage. I think this is some kind of a scam, because despite AAA towing coverage, they still charged me 325 to get it from my house to a couple miles away to their boneyard plus storage fees.

So, I now have to revert to driving the Golf. I attempted to get some sleep (not much, and full of bad dreams) So I got out of bed and took the Golf for a test drive around town and all was fine. I put the trunk area back in order. Then left for work and only made it 4 blocks before it dies on me. This time it was not the fuel pump power supply problem, it was the other problem with no spark. I checked a lot of things, replaced the ignition module, and finally called work who already had told me I could take the night off to recover from the car wreck and I decided to do so. Then did one final test, used my pocket knife to connect the center terminal of the Hall Sending Unit Plug to one of the valve cover nuts, which generated sparks just fine. Plugged it back in, and of course, it started right up. I had already unplugged/re-plugged this, which is usually good enough to ensure a good contact. I also had recently sprayed the distributor interior down with electrical cleaner and the socket at well, but not the plug itself. Which I guess was the problem?? Just putting my pocket knife in there was enough to get it working again? Anyway, I spayed that plug with two different contact cleaners once I got it home. And it's run just fine since then. And I have a roll of primary wire in the car now in case the power supply issue comes up again.

As for the 02 Camry... I decided it would cost too much to try to fix and let the towing company have it for scrap. It was not without its flaws. Yes, it got great gas mileage but that was offset by having to add oil all the time because this engine is notorious for oil burning. And I never really got used to the clutch pedal, which was like twice as hard to depress as in my Golf. And while I was still getting used to having that large of a vehicle, it was a decent car. (if any one wants to see pictures, I put some over on a Forum that is the Toyota equivalent of TheSamba: https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/end-of-an-02-camry-talk-about-bad-luck.1717839 )

The Golf no longer gets near as good fuel economy as it once did, but I KNOW this car. I've put 300K on it over 20 years now. So I'll continue to drive it if the bloody thing will just keep running. When it has spark, the engine usually starts immediately when cranking, usually after the 2nd or 3rd stroke.
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Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[TDCTDI]

Eh, post too long about damn near everything but a VW. I got to about the part about “runs, but drops out…”. Try checking the in-tank (transfer) pump.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[glutamodo]

I determined that the transfer pump was not getting power. I CARRY A REPLACEMENT transfer pump and I actually changed it out in the hour it took for the tow truck to show up. The fuel pump relay was activating just fine (and I have a rig I built years ago that I can plug into the fuse panel with a toggle switch giving direct control over the fuel pump) but the terminal 30 lead from the battery to the fuse panel just wasn't working I guess.

And this is a USA made car, it does not have the horrible plastic cube fuse/relay panel that German and Mexico made cars have.

The issue I had a couple of days ago was no-spark. Which resolved itself after I stuck my knife into the plug for the distributor. Considering this is still the original NOV 1984 wiring and distributor, I don't think it's out of the range of possibility that I was getting a poor connection in there. Or at least I hope that's what it was and that I've addressed it.
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[glutamodo]

Continuing this story, if anyone is interested:

I mentioned above that I changed out the transfer fuel pump. I later checked the pump I took out of the tank and it still runs just fine.

So: I was having two un-related problems. Intermittent no spark, and a power supply issue.

Every time I would have a no-spark issue, I would check the system by unplugging the connector on the side of the distributor and connecting the center terminal to ground, that generates a spark. It works every time and every time I did so the car would run again after I plugged it back in.

The last time it happened a couple of weeks ago I decided to just replace the Hall Sending Unit in the distributor. I have a NOS replacement anyway, but the distributor has to come out because you have to catch a VERY tiny locking pin for the trigger wheel, plus fiddle about with the vacuum canister. A few days ago I did so, and hell, after I put the distributor back in I found it was only barely off on the timing.

So I was hoping I got that sorted, so I drove that afternoon to work, just to see. Seemed to be fine... However, my lower-than-it-used-to-be fuel economy seemed to be the same though.

Then the next morning... I got about 7-ish miles after I left work, when the OTHER problem came up again. The engine stopped firing, but my tachometer showed that it was sparking just fine... so it wasn't the no-spark thing, it was just no fuel.

I was able to coast to a good stopping place and I was prepared. I had a spool of wire in the car. I got that out and hooked direct to the battery and from there through the door, down to the output side of fuel pump socket in the relay panel. Fuel pump stared running. and I drove the remaining 74 miles home.

This time, once home, I found that the problem had not fixed itself. So, last night I did some tests. I decided to go basic and use a test lamp (it's an LED test probe so it's very sensitive) and when I plug it into the feed side where the fuel pump relay goes, I got a signal! Now the feed for the fuel pump is shared with the parking lights and the load reduction relay. And the instant I turned the headlight switch to the middle slot, the test light went out. That means: bad contact somewhere. (And I should add that I've never noticed any signs of water damage around my relay or fuse plates)

Since I had previously had a fusible link fail on this car (they sit along the wheelwell under the hood and an accumulation of leaves plus rainwater had some of them submerged in water and that water got into one of them and ate it up from the inside.) I replaced it with an inline fuseholder. But that was not the one in question here. I thought it was one of the others, but when I could not read power at the relay plate, I could still read power on the output side of all three other fusible links (Long ago I ground the tip of my test probe a sharp needle point so I can stab wires for testing purposes)

So that meant it was between the fusible link and the relay panel, or in where it connects to that panel. Now I'm used to seeing how German and Mexican relay/fuse cubes going bad, but this is a USA made car with a separate relay plate and fuse panel. I did drop the relay panel and tried to look in there but it's just a solid mass of bundled wires and not really worth dealing with.

So I needed to to just run a new wire. I did so, soldered a new 16 gauge wire to the loom coming off the battery, into the car, and I found that "fuse 19" in the fusebox was part of this electrical bus and unused, that was perfect. I just put a double barrel spade crimp on the end of that wire and plug it in there in lieu of a fuse.

And it worked. I hung the fuse box back in place, screwed the knee level trim plate back in place and called it good.

Now, I would rather have liked to have found out what was wrong here, because I didn't actually REPAIR it... I just ran around it.

Still, I think I finally have both issues sorted. Which is good because while I have my eyes open for another similar 6th Gen Camry to replace the one I lost, I want a stick shift and the three such I've seen come up for sale in my region recently all sold before I could get to them.
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.