Insulation in Vanagon

[johnnytod]

Hi Folks,
I wanna get your opinion on insulation in the vanagon.
If you notice in the photo the side walls of the vanagon are uneven - they have ribs and other sticking parts.

1. How would you insulate this surface given the uneven feature if you were to put closed cell foam or polyiso sheets?

2. Would you glue the sheets directly to the external panels (so that no warm air can touch the external sheet and cause condensation) or would you hang it somehow leaving an air gap between the external metal sheet and the insulation sheet so it can "breathe"?

I am thinking to do this but wanted to check opinions:

I have closed cell foam sheets EVA foam 3/4 inch thick (the ones used as gym mats) and I think they are really good insulators too. The problem is they are too thick to bend and conform to the uneven forms of the panels. So I am thinking of cutting them in smaller pieces and thus follow the form of the panels where it sticks out. Glue them directly to the external metal sheets. Put in the crevasses in between the smaller foam sheets yellow spray foam to try to prevent any warm air reaching the external panels and causing condensation.
Then on top of the EVA foam sheets put also Havelock New Zealand sheeps wool and close it off with the interior panels.

The EVA sheets should be around 3 R value at this thickness and the wool is 3.6 R value at 1 inch so in total this should achieve around 7 R value.
Of course the problem with the vanagon is that it has 7 windows all around + the windows at the high top roof and this would be the major source of heat dissipation, but that is another issue that one can do nothing about.


Any comments / suggestions?

_________________
1.9 Diesel NA, 1Y, Adventurewagen high top roof, Joker interior

[DuncanS]

I'd use rock wool. Very easy to cut and fit and will give you the R 7 without the adhesive issues of what you are thinking about. Bends into the curves.

Duncan

[TomInAlaska]

Either rock wool like Duncan suggests or sheep wool (havelock in my case) stuffed into as many nooks and crannies as you can should do the trick. The only areas I've used anything to keep it in place is on the sliding door and behind the big panel on the driver's side and all I did there was use some strips of gorilla tape to keep it from sagging down. I can't speak to the long term need for air circulation, though.
_________________
'73 Super Beetle (resto-mod/rally look, 1776)

'84 GL adventure van project (1.9L, 4speed) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=755844&highlight=

[thatbaldwinlife]

We almost went with sheep wool but it was hard to get and expensive during the pandemic. We went with 3M Thinsulate in all of the panels and are pretty happy with it.

nate
_________________
1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[johnnytod]

I going to cut in shape and glue the 3/4' EVA foam mats first, then put a electric wire conduit (to be readily available for wires) then put the sheep's wool.
That would be all good but still I feel like 50% of the van is still wide open exposed with all the windows around and will probably dissipate any insulation effect from the lower part.

Have you found any good insulation technique for the windows?

This has been always my problem area when camping in negative temperatures, I wake up and all the windows have icing on the inside. Once you start the van, all this ice becomes water and flows down into to the interior. Not nice to deal with condensation from the windows
_________________
1.9 Diesel NA, 1Y, Adventurewagen high top roof, Joker interior

[bobhill8]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=715567

lots of threads on this, with many good ideas
_________________
1986 Westy
1971 Squareback

[Silverghost500]

@johnnytod, I made some window insulation panels out of a roll of foil backed insulation, and they seemed to work out pretty well in helping keep the interior warmer. I also plan to use them for Summer to see if they help keep the van from getting as heat soaked.
_________________
1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion-Road Testing Phase
3-Speed Automatic

Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA

[Mateo83]

I put sound deadener on the wall itself and then filled the cavity with home insulation.
_________________
83 Air-cooled 2.0 Tin Top

[4Gears4Tires]

I've had this idea of using shipping Instapak bags. They are basically sealed expanding foam in a bag. Kind of pricey for what they are imo, but they would be easy to use. Break internal seal, stuff them in places, put interior stuff back, let them expand and mold.

https://www.amazon.com/Sealed-Air-Instapak-Quick-B...amp;sr=8-8

I'll give it a shot one day.
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[RoryGirl]

I still like this idea -

https://shufti.blog/2014/09/11/vanagon-body-insulation-idea/

[gbrandt]

[johnnytod]

I just cut a piece of my home pipe insulation (same as in the picture), put it under water, then squeezed and a whole bunch of water fell down. I think this is not closed cell foam and so absorbs moisture. It is porous and all the water gets retained. So does not seem appropriate for insulation where moisture will be. Otherwise good creative idea.

Gregor, if your diesel heater was idling that means working so it would not be the job of the insulation to keep you at -16 but the heater itself. Otherwise, the heater should stay silent and only switch on when the temperature falls under your desired level.
Anyhow, what kind of heater are you using? I am planning to mount one too.
I saw one Chinese model which seems to use the coolant of the diesel engine , thus it heats the engine block also + makes hot water + hot air for heating = 3 rabbits with one bullet. I especially like the heating of the engine block because my diesel starts struggling to start around 20-30 F.
And making hot water is great too as it saves one more appliance in the van so no need to install an extra instant hot water heater.

Is yours diesel heater of that sort?

Has anyone installed this kind of diesel heater and what is your satisfaction level?
_________________
1.9 Diesel NA, 1Y, Adventurewagen high top roof, Joker interior

[mikemtnbike]

Just to be clear- wool is hydrophobic, but can still absorb ~ 20% of it's weight in water.

If close cell foam absolutely won't absorb water, where does it go? Does it condense on the surface, or pool at the bottom of the panel cavity?

I don't think, however, that absorbing water is the biggest worry here- I mean, the insulation gowesty sells is recycled denim. Some people have argued that insulation is rust-inducing, but that jury is still out in my opinion.

My point is, none of the options are perfect, I'd just use what's available and you are comfortable using.

Also, I'd start a separate thread with the heater question, or post it in the giant thread about diesel heaters already running.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=703569&highlight=diesel+heaters
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[gbrandt]

[VdubVanner]

Everyone hates the old yellow insulation (except me:-) so here's another way of looking at things: https://www.vacayvans.com/best-natural-insulation-...aNycGzNCFE .

Sheep's wool may absorb moisture but it also releases it. The big thing is to make sure that you have no water leaks by carefully sealing everything up inside and out.
_________________
"Fritz", a temperamental and unforgiving 1989 Westy that proudly bears his German flags and status as a member of the exclusive GoWesty Belly Flop Club.
1989 Westy Makeover: GoWesty 2.3L Engine plus plus plus https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

[mikemtnbike]

[bobbyblack]

If you are thinking of using some kind of adhesive directly on the inside of the metal panels (the "skin" of the bus) I would encourage you to start with something designed to deaden sound/vibration like fatmat, or generic type similar. Then use whatever insulation you find the least problematic. In general though, I've seen more opinions that discourage gluing anything to the inside of the skin than encouraging direct adhesive, over the past 7 years of reading posts like this one here on TS.

I should add that it might be a good plan to leave access to the inside of the seams, so you can get something like fluid film, or waxoyl into them from the inside of the bus. You probably have some understanding that seam rust manifests from "the inside outward" so you would have rust between the panels before you see it from the outside.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[vanagonjr]

[chrissev2]

I used this stuff:

https://www.amazon.ca/LINGDA-Insulation-Dampening-...&psc=1

Big problem I had was whatever insulation went in, the mice came directly after and I ended up with mouse nests everywhere.

With this, no mice.
_________________
1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia

[johnnytod]

Bobbyblack, if I dont glue the EVA foam to the skin panels, then how can it be attached (without falling or moving, clunking during drive)?

I thought initially also it is not good idea to glue it directly to the panels but I see all people putting polyiso and other foam boards are gluing them directly onto the panels.
So I have not figured out a way if I wanted to just put the foam mats with say 1/2 inch gap to the panels how I could attach them firmly from not moving and not clunking?

P.S. Chrissev, just curious - where would all the mice come from? Do you have big holes underneath the body?
I noticed my van had also cracked nuts and tracks from mice from PO , he must have left it abandoned for a while but I don't think now there are any holes underneath where they can come in
_________________
1.9 Diesel NA, 1Y, Adventurewagen high top roof, Joker interior