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New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' !
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mj2k
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 9:44 am    Post subject: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Hi, I wasn't planning to join any Beetle user groups since what I'm doing to a poor old 1303 would probably make purists' hair stand on end, but I keep referring to thesamba.com for all my build queries, so though I'd better give something back, even if it is just a vast amount of project spam.

I've not owned many VWs over the years, just a 71 Type 3 in the late 80s which was so rusty one of the front wings fell off when I hit a deep pothole (luckily someone took pity and bought it off me as a v early restoration project), and a dreadful newish (at the time) Passat B5 VR5 which loved to expensively break down at every possible opportunity (it was such a lemon it should have been painted bright yellow), so working on a Type 1 has been a bit of an alien experience for me.

I'm no stranger to doing resurrections / restorations / weird projects however, so I'm making reasonable progress, despite my lack of experience...

Before cracking on with the project thread I'd better give my reasons for starting it up and choosing a 1303, so you can block this thread in horror if it's not for you Very Happy For the past 20 years I've stuck pretty much to performance E series Mercedes', Alfas and Subarus, but the fuel crisis at the beginning of the year gave me a bit of a shock, so I broke my last Subaru project (a real electronics challenge since I was combining parts from 4 different Subarus taken from 3 different continents) just after I finished it since it was doing a maximum of 15mpg, and bought a badly damaged Abarth 595 as a project, which I got roadworthy after a few weeks' spannering work and welding in part of a new chassis rail, before modifying it to suit my needs. Loving this little Fiat thingy, but despite it's superior mpg and similar handling / performance to the Subaru 'bitsa', the latest developments in fuel prices and potential legislation made me think it's time to get an EV as a future-proof 2nd car.

I didn't really like the idea (or cost!) of a new EV, so started scanning around for potential EV conversion victims, and it appears the Beetle / Type 2 is one of the cheapest/easiest classics to convert to an EV, and since there aren't any BCUs, ECUs or CAN buses in sight I don't need to worry about recoding / resoldering various electronics bits, like I needed to do on my last Subaru project. And even better, unlike most cars, the handling might actually be improved by an EV conversion since the weight distribution will be more even.

Whilst I was looking, I realized the 1303 / 'super beetle' was the perfect candidate since it had slightly more modern suspension, considerably more potential battery room in the 'frunk', and as one of the most common of the air-cooled VWs, it wouldn't offend my sensibilities quite as much if I butchered one. I then started looking at Wizard roadsters since they're "pre-butchered" and had even more battery room under the extended deck lid, but quickly realized any chassis / floorpan work would require major surgery since the shell's not as rigid, and the firewall / part of the floorpan is hidden under fibreglass.
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mj2k
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Enough of my rambling, on with the pictures Smile

I came across this beastie advertised on Facebook a couple of moths ago - not run in about 9 years and a bit of a Mecchano kit, but appeared to be mostly complete and the engine / floorpan have had a lot of attention already.

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Since there's not much point in me spending stacks of money making it into an ev if the basic shell is scrap, I decided to get it roadworthy asap, put it in for it's first MOT in nearly a decade, and run it for a few months before doing anything in particular to it.

First job was to finish sorting the headlining; it's 2nd hand from the donor behind the 1st pic so far from ideal, but I'll no doubt be paying a 'pro' to replace it properly at some time if the project pays off:

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Not perfect, but it'll do for the mo:
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Next job was to refit the glass since I was worried about it getting broken in my crowded garage. A complete faff, but got it fitted in the end, along with the rear brightwork:

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Next stage was to attend to the paintwork - the bonnet was scrubbed down to primer, the deck lid and doors were the wrong colour, and the shell / wings were covered in scratches:

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Warning - here come the first mods! After much pouring over Type 1/2/3/4 paint charts, I realized the paintwork was already non-standard and there were no records of what colour it was, but a few random cans of spray paint from Halfords later, I discovered it was Night Blue Metallic, as used on the S1 Golf, etc. I hope. I won't know for sure 'til it's out in the sunlight, but it looks like a reasonable match:

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Since I've got no real idea if the paint match is perfect and have no intention of going for a bare metal respray (besides the cost, it'd reveal any other lurking rust horrors under the newish paint, which would turn this from a quick build into something far less appetizing) I've done the panels with a rattle can! Shocked Quality's not too bad (I'm reasonably OK with a rattle can) but it's almost impossible to get a perfect metallic paint match outside a professional's spray booth since the paint flakes lie in different directions, so that'll be another job for a 'pro' in the future.

And now for the next shocker - since it's already running non-standard wheels and has a disc conversion in the front, it's running quite large spacers at the front which made the wheels stick out beyond the arches, but luckily picked up a nice set of wider fibreglass 1303 wings along with a better driver's door for a very good price. So on they went, resprayed in glorious rattle-can night blue:

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

So now the 'mods bug' had bitten - I'm not a huge fan of the wing-top indicators on the front or the excess (and excessive) chrome wheelarch finishers / door handle backings, so off they came. And since I'd have needed to cut holes in the wings and repair the corroded bumper mounts, off came the bumpers too. Not too much of a concern to me - the later-style bumpers also fit into the heading of excessive chrome to me.

Now, since it's a 1303, fitting the US-style pre'68 combined indicators / headlights was a no-go, so I carried on with the mods, and fitted LED all-in-one headlights after modifying the original / corroded headlights to surround them:

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And then, since I'm not a huge fan of the "elephant's foot" rear lights (but don't want to splurge £700ish on pre-68 style widened rear wings and tombstone lights) I had a look for custom rear lights for the 1303. Not much about butI found some on Ebay, and though they're not the greatest quality (they seem like a Chinese knock-off of something much earlier and better made) they certainly give the look I was after:

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Next stage was to replace the spring-loaded bonnet lid lifters - the bonnet didn't open as far as it should, made horrible noises, and one of the springs had previously bent so far it put a dent in an outer body panel! So off they came, to be replaced with gas struts:

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Final result (rear light covers removed for the next stage) with running boards refitted:

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I quite like the look - plainly still a 1303, but with a lot less of the overly-fussy chromework.

Bodywork's still not totally finished (I suspect I'll need to weld in new panels once the MOT man has had a look, and I still need to flat down the new paint, respray any horrible looking bits and lacquer it) but it'll do for now.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Pending the MOT man's approval (I may need to revert to more traditional style lights if the new ones aren't up to standard for whatever reason) the outer bodywork's sort-of finished, so time to move onto the next pressing job - the electrics.

No dash lights, the indicators only worked, erratically, with the headlights and interior light on, the reversing lights came on with rear indicators / tail lights, the brake lights didn't work at all, and the headlights were stuck on main beam. As an attempt to fix this, somewhere in it's near-50 year history, the wiring had been hideously bodged, and then bodged again when the first lot of bodges failed. Which then also subsequently failed.

As probably everyone knows, the 1303 wiring diagram is almost unintelligible and appears to have been scribbled on the back of a fag packet, so was extremely glad of an annotated / coloured wiring diagram which someone had put on here. Much work later I'd restored the original wiring, and found the root cause of the issues - corroded brake light switch, corroded / failing indicator / main beam relays, and a corroded indicator lever. I'm still waiting for the new indicator lever to arrive, but replacement relays sorted the main issues once the wiring had been returned to something like standard.

Here's what almost 50 years worth of wiring bodges looks like:

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Then moved onto the rear loom - a rat's nest of cut and bodged wires, and the reverse lights had been wired direct to the battery, which had burned out the reverse light switch. Much work later I could get the charge and oil pressure lights to work when manually grounded, but since the oil pressure switch has failed and the regulator's been cut out (it's got the alternator which needs a regulator) I can't declare it 'done' until those parts come in, and I fit / test them. I suspect this isn't totally how the wiring's supposed to look, but it'll do for the moment, especially as most of it will be coming out when the EV motor goes in anyway:

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Also need to rewire the reversing lights correctly when the switch comes in.

And with that, we're pretty much up to date. I can't finish the electrics until the parts came in, so made a start on the interior a couple of days ago, after tidying the 'frunk' a bit:

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Doubt the piece of carpet's correct for fitting over the fuel tank; I suspect it's supposed to go on the rear seat back, but need to check that. Also there's some obvious filler in the spare wheel well, but assuming this car is declared roadworthy it'll give me a good excuse to chop it out and fit a rectangular well in it's place, to take even more EV batteries.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

I like the idea. Be forewarned however. I dragged home my 72 Super for exactly the same reasons, and many years later I still have the 11 inch DC motor sitting on a dolly in the back of my barn. I got it roadworthy, and then enjoyed driving it, and then drove it some more... and some more... and some more... Very Happy

Have fun wherever this project takes you. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Good to see another UK 1303/Super on the forum!

Looking forwards to the progress on this one. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Buggeee wrote:
I like the idea. Be forewarned however. I dragged home my 72 Super for exactly the same reasons, and many years later I still have the 11 inch DC motor sitting on a dolly in the back of my barn. I got it roadworthy, and then enjoyed driving it, and then drove it some more... and some more... and some more... Very Happy

Have fun wherever this project takes you. Cool


Thanks Smile

Like you I already have the AC motor and bellhousing adaptor sitting in my garage (it's an ex-demo unit from a type 2) so I hope I don't end up doing that!

But, though my old type 3 fastback was fun when I wasn't fighting the sloppy gearchange (must add that to my 'to do' list) or picking bits of it up off the road, it'll need to really stir the emotions to replace my daily - the stumpy Fiat thing. That snarls and crackles like an old Alfa (interior's quite similar too), handles almost as well as a Subaru, and does the same mpg as the 1303 Wink

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Caledfryn wrote:
Good to see another UK 1303/Super on the forum!

Looking forwards to the progress on this one. Very Happy


Thanks Smile

There will definitely be frequent and regular updates on here, at least 'til I get to the 'ev conversion' stage - that bit is so expensive I'll need to save up for all the parts...
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

...And talking of updates, here's one.

Not a huge amount of progress, but over the last week I've done the conversion to an electric screenwasher:

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Fitted the carpet to the heater pipes / sills (a lot of hassle), tidied up under the rear seats (once I'd redone the loom it just needed a hoover and respray) plus removed the bakelite heater channel ends, the rear y pieces and control cables (the guides would have needed welding, it's getting an electric heater so I don't have to worry about the heat exchangers, and it'll be EV ready):

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Replaced the corroded speedo with a (hopefully) known good one, and cleaned a bit of muck off the dashboard. I'm definitely keeping this bit of 'patina' - the fake woodgrain is very 70s, and it's got ready-made holes for the ev gauges:

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And best of all, it's got the sort of history glued to it which I wouldn't want to lose - it must have been owned by a classic Beetle enthusiast back in the 90s:

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

mj2k wrote:
...the stumpy Fiat thing...

Nice
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Buggeee wrote:
mj2k wrote:
...the stumpy Fiat thing...

Nice


Wasn't quite so nice when I got it though - it was another of my projects Very Happy

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Mostly damage to bolt-on bits though, apart from the front of the chassis rail where the bumper attaches, so not too hard to resurrect.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Busy day yesterday, doing stuff which doesn't look terribly impressive in photos:

Fitting the door weather strips, removing them again when I realized the doors needed better alignment, then refitting them.

Fitting the bonnet release cable. More of a hassle than you'd expect since the entire mechanism was missing, so had to remove the glovebox to mount the outer cable and release lever, route the cable, and fix the release mech at the front.

Restoring the glovebox as best I could - some idiot had glued one corner in place so that snapped off when I tried to remove it, but otherwise went well; as said before I didn't want to replace it because of the Stonor badges, but I managed to reattach the front properly and the 'fuzzy felt' inside cleaned up nicely, so just need to find some suitable grommets to stop it rattling on it's hinges

Finding a nasty surprise - I went to fit a missing heater pipe into the 'black hole', and it went nowhere near. So had a fish down the hole (luckily my arms are quite thin) and found a big blob of that expanding foam stuff you use for wall insulation! Then spent the rest of the day poking about down there with a screwdriver and a hoover with the heater pipe fastened to it as an extension to remove the rubbish Rolling Eyes

Still not finished removing all the foam yet, but it gives me the nasty feeling I'll be doing some work on the bottom corners of the A posts and rear edge of the front wheelarches, even though they appear sound. That'd also explain why the doors drop a bit, even though the hinges are fine. But better do the MOT first before cracking on with those, in case there are any other nasty underbody surprises which make the rest of the shell beyond economic repair.

(BTW how do you do a bulleted list on this forum?)
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Quote:
gives me the nasty feeling I'll be doing some work on the bottom corners of the A posts and rear edge of the front wheelarches

Before you struggle too much to get the defrost hose reattached to the outlet at the top of the heater channel at the bottom of the "black hole", realize that there is an access hole on the interior side of the car which can help you. You'll find it after carefully removing the rear bottom edge of the footwell carpet piece. Here's the hole from FlowerPowered gallery, showing right side footwell. Right side is where the door hinges are; left side vertical seam is the transition to the inner fenderwell/kick panel. The hole is only approx. 1" diameter, but you can use a blunt tool thru the hole to press/push the hose bottom onto the outlet.
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Quote:
mount the outer cable and release lever, route the cable, and fix the release mech at the front.

Careful with the latch adjustment! If the release lever and cable does not pull the catch in the nose panel back far enough, the hood is stuck shut! What I've done on my '77 Standard Beetle is to route a thin single-strand wire to the catch, and run it out of the side of the front compartment in the wheelwell. Form the end of the wire in the wheelwell into a small loop which you can grasp with 2 fingers. This is your "safety" release in case the latch is stuck closed.

Bullets in the response text- No obvious feature. What I do is to start a "bulleted" sentence with a hash mark (-).
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Before you struggle too much to get the defrost hose reattached to the outlet at the top of the heater channel at the bottom of the "black hole", realize that there is an access hole on the interior side of the car which can help you.


Ah yes, I've only got that on one side... I suspect that's another sign I'll be needing to do some welding.

Rome wrote:
Careful with the latch adjustment! If the release lever and cable does not pull the catch in the nose panel back far enough, the hood is stuck shut! What I've done on my '77 Standard Beetle is to route a thin single-strand wire to the catch, and run it out of the side of the front compartment in the wheelwell. Form the end of the wire in the wheelwell into a small loop which you can grasp with 2 fingers. This is your "safety" release in case the latch is stuck closed.


Thanks, that's a good idea. I've actually fallen foul of that one already - when I first got the car I noticed the bonnet latch was only held on by two pop rivets. "Ah, that's an easy fix" thought I, fixed it and slammed the bonnet, only to discover there wasn't a release cable Shocked

Luckily there was an access hole here, where the large round metal bung is at the front of the wheel well:

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Presumably that's supposed to be securely fastened, but since it was loose, I put my hand up through it and manually released the lock. And then quickly removed the bonnet lock pin.

Rome wrote:
Bullets in the response text- No obvious feature. What I do is to start a "bulleted" sentence with a hash mark (-).


Good idea Smile
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Finally managed to scrape all the insulating foam out, and then stuck the trusty hoover with the heater pipe extension through the aperture where the cabin air vent is, and kept poking down the heater tube until there was a clear flow of air. Then I could finally 'screw' the heater duct into place. Then put the hoover on maximum power, closed the centre air vents and opened the dash ones, and left the hoover to get on with clearing any more nasties out of the ducts whilst I fiddled with the air vent controls.

Then did a quick mockup of the electric heater. It's from T7 Design; decided to go for the 400w rather than the 600w since it'll put less strain on the wiring now, and less strain on the inverter when / if I do the EV conversion. Still draws 34A when running though...!

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However, according to my Flir thermal imaging phone (bit chunky but it's a lot more useful and robust than an iPhone Wink ) it's not exactly pushing out a lot of heat - max 3.9 degrees above the ambient temperature of 11.5 degrees (typical British summer day Confused ):

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And there's a temperature difference between one side and the other:

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Then noticed there was a lot of heat loss through the aluminium ducting I was using, so will have to swap that for silicone ducting designed for brake cooling - plenty robust and heat-resistant enough for this use.

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And noticed there was a lot of heat loss through the centre air vents even when closed, so replaced the missing insulation on the flaps:

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That's about it for today, but did grab a quick picture of how the interior looks from the front now:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Still waiting for parts, so wired in the switches / relays for the heated rear window and cab heater. Run out of things to do for now...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

With the FLIR gun, you are pointing at reflective areas. Reflective is also refractive, when it comes to light waves and heat waves.

That’s why you have a difference. As an example, stick a flat table in the sun. Measure the temps. Then take a plate of glass and get the refractive silhouette to appear on the table. You can pick this increases signature up with your gun. Maybe an increase of 1 - 3 degrees.

Are you new to reading IR waves? I have about 10 years looking at my FLIR for household issues. If you need any pointers, PM me!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
With the FLIR gun, you are pointing at reflective areas. Reflective is also refractive, when it comes to light waves and heat waves.

That’s why you have a difference. As an example, stick a flat table in the sun. Measure the temps. Then take a plate of glass and get the refractive silhouette to appear on the table. You can pick this increases signature up with your gun. Maybe an increase of 1 - 3 degrees.

Are you new to reading IR waves? I have about 10 years looking at my FLIR for household issues. If you need any pointers, PM me!


Thanks for the offer Smile

Def no heat reflections in this case, the car's in the garage and I'm in the UK, so direct sunlight is about as common as a herd of unicorns Laughing

Would be good to know why the heat reading is about an inch out on the vents though, is it my flir technique, is it a quirk in the vents, or do I need to take the dash out and see if they've moved?

The flir feature's been very useful to me too, it helped me to spot heat loss through my front door in the middle of winter, helped me to spot I'd over-braked one of my Subaru's at the rear (could be dangerous in the wet) and helped me check I'd improved the brake balance on my Abarth, besides spotting the heat loss. Fitting better insulated ducting fixed the issue, under 0.5 degrees between the sides now and securing it better means I can actually feel some airflow through the vents now.

And it helped me notice this rather scary sight, the cab heater I've fitted was drawing more current than I expected and overheating the relay and wiring; max temp recorded was 110 degrees!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I've since swapped to a 50A relay and thicker wiring, with an inline fuse going direct to the battery + terminal to ensure I don't accidentally melt anything.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Got the gearshift bushes and bushes for the seat runners yesterday, so fitted those.

Shift is still a little weird after swapping the bushes and adjusting - the throw to get into 1st is much larger than for the other gears despite multiple attempts to adjust it, but I have no idea if that's normal or not because I've never driven an air cooled VW with an un-sloppy shifter.

Is it normal to need to move the shifter a lot to reach 1st?

I'm guessing if it's not normal it'll just be a sign the shift rod or shifter is worn. But hopefully it's not a biggie even if that is a sign the gearbox is toast since I've got a spare which was fine when the donor was running (condition of the fitted 'box is unknown), though neither gearbox has been used in almost a decade
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mj2k
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Joined: May 26, 2022
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: New user, and new project - 'Throwitbacktogether' ! Reply with quote

Finally got the parts I've been waiting for (except the indicator stalk) so was able to finish testing the electrics at last - oil and charge warning lights worked as expected, and I got a spark from the coil when I connected it up and manually moved the distributor.

Prob worth replacing the coil, leads, dizzy cap, plugs and points to be on the safe side, but initial signs are good.

Also fitted the newly-arrived grab handles (it's amazing how much difference fresh grab handles make to the look of the interior) and I've now got a clutch alignment tool, so can finally get on with the mechanical stuff.

And when / if it moves under it's own power, I can move it into a position where I can look at the underside properly. Fingers crossed that's not where this project all falls down...
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