Trevor’s Transaxle

[Clatter]

So Trevor’s a bro, right?

He gets on here and shares his real experience..
Doesn’t make shit up or talk out his ass..

A hard-working dad who doesn’t have a lot of extra money laying around,
And the stock early IRS gearbox in his Fastback sucks and is worn out.
He’s building a proper big-valve 2110, and drives his car a lot.

Since i need some practice and a guinea pig,
Here’s a good way to clean up around here.

Hoping to also get help deciding what parts are good to re-use and what needs replaced.
Don’t want to waste money on anything not needed,
But also don’t want problems.
Kind of a “customer” trans rather than a total “cost is no option” labor of love, dig?

This AH-code SSC seemed a good core to start with..
I ripped it down and Jeff helped me clean it up.

So much for that idea..
The pinion bearing had been loose for long enough that the R/P was wasted.
At least i think that’s what killed it..
Luckily the pinion bearing bore was still decently tight to the bearing,
So i set the case aside.

Later,
Once Brent decided to build a Berg5.
(Hope to do a thread on this one soon)
We had the guts from this late late (a.k.a zig-zag or shift-rib) trans available.

Got an extra late re-bushed gear carrier from Rich Roberts,
And took it all in for a pro tanking at our local Santa Cruz Auto Parts.
It’s now off for a sandblasting.

The same day it gets blasted I’ll run it straight home,
Where it’ll get hosed off,
douched with phosphoric,
blown dry,
and a light dusting of epoxy,
Followed right away by one coat of single-stage black urethane.
This last one got all that and the paint sticks.

Will post pics of the actual item once it happens IRL.
Should be middle of next week.

We’ll post this up now before it goes poof.
More to come..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Here’s the cluster from the AH ready to press apart.

Basically a bunch of junk..

Gear carrier is bad because the mainshaft bore is pounded,
Plus the shafts need re-bushed.
Bad 4.12 Pinion and a keyed 10-tooth mainshaft!
Not really much worth keeping.

Digging thru used pinion bearings this SKF is a peach.
Unfortunately the nut threads got wasted.

These other two aren’t great but should work.
Scott says that little bits of shit smashed onto the race by the rollers doesn’t mean a bearing is bad.
It’s only when the hardening is going away and the race pits that they’re junk for sure.
Since the slightly better one was OG to this case i decided to run it.
Not really sure why i decided that matters..

Found a really nice factory double-roller metal-cage bearing and a perfect late nut,
The zig-zag donated a 3:88 pinion,
And it all got smashed together at 160ft. lbs with blue lock-tite.

More later..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Man, i need a parts washer!

Making long studs out of some M8 x 1.25 all-thread,
so a front mount bolts right on.
Buying shouldered studs would be way easier and give better support,
But i had it so i ran with it.
Sucks to try and back studs out when installing a mount - causes leaks.

3.78 1St gear was pretty damn nice.
Not sure if it’ll get any teeth broken off yet.
2.06 2nds i have quite a few of,
But still none good enough to keep their teeth.

Trying to knock teeth off like Scott I’m just not enough of a gnarly badass.
Had to give them a head start with a cutoff wheel.

Even with the help they still shot like bullets and gave a flash of light.
Check out how the towel gets smashed.

Dug around until i found my best mainshaft bearing.
Did the trick Scott showed me smashing them in a vise to tell how smooth they really are..

Luckily the AH had a good 10-tooth diff, so i stabbed the 3.88 ring gear.
Using a late gear carrier and splined mainshaft means a splined hub and later slider, plus late gears and a ‘lined’ 3-4 shift rod.
Had a gasket set, seals, and even a set of new carrier bearings to donate to the project.

This one’s going to be tricky to put together - using parts from different years.
Let me know if you see anything I’m doing wrong or to watch out for.

Also since it’s all from different boxes I’m tempted to find a better side cover.
A dual-ring would be sweet but i got none.
There’s a used billet one in the classifieds for 50 bucks that looks cool.

So there it sits.
Could just throw it together with all the used stuff i got here,
But it seems kind of a waste..

I know we need an early 2-bolt nosecone.
Anyone have one to donate?

Or any other parts, maybe?

It’s for a good cause..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[[email protected]]

[VWporscheGT3]

Hey hey now. very cool. I'll do what I can to get the monies together for whatever I need to pick up. I just need to buy some tubing for the exhaust modification I will be doing on the cheep-o header for the 2110 motor is essentially paid for until its time to start buying jets for the Dell's around break in time.


If there is anyone in this hobby that is just a freaking kick ass good dude it is Steve. He put's up with and offers kick ass advice anytime a random thought bounces through my brain like a .22lr bouncing off a rock. without getting too weepy , I have been blessed with some genuinely awesome friends in my life and most of them in recent years, Steve is one of those dudes.


On a side note... and I don't usually speak up like this, But lately it seems to be getting worse. For the little d-bags who cant see past their own nose and get their little feewings hurt anytime someone says something contradictory to what they think.... maybe shut up once and a while and listen to the folks who genuinely know what the hell they are talking about since they have the experience and time in this hobby.. your post count doesn't count for knowledge and you might be burning bridges with some of the best dudes you will ever meet. ok grouch fest over.

-Trevor
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[vwracerdave]

[VWporscheGT3]

[Clatter]

Now, now let’s not let this one get all off-track.
These are happy times!

Dave, you’re cool and i never had any beef with you at all.
Nothing wrong with speaking your mind.

It’s when people make stuff up that pisses me off!
No need to create an imaginary persona here like some kids on Facebook..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

So i get a PM from a guy Elliott says he’s known Trevor since high school??

We got our first donation!

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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

So now we get into the discussion of what to build..

Pretty sure we want to stay with stock ratios.
Even though this is a 2110 stroker motor with a big exhaust, Dells, etc.
it’s going to run a pretty mild cam from CB - just bigger than a W110.
Car is a heavy type 3 and it gets driven in traffic and on the highway.
No need to think about close ratio 3-4…

With factory late fine-tooth 1.26/0.93 I’m thinking it’s about right.
A mild 2110 could maybe pull an 0.88 easily enough?
Trevor runs kinda short tires..

That would mean using the early coarse-tooth gears which i have here in good shape.
Could doctor up a hub and get some conversion washers and cones.
That would make 3-4 stronger, but also noisier.

If we stick with the late fine-tooth stuff,
Probably best to pop for a new China mainshaft bearing.
That’s all you can get now but they say they’re good quality.

What you guys think?
Quieter,
Or stronger?

More gear?
Or keep it stock?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

More discussion about what to build…

All new syncros are like $75.
But i have a nice used set here..

Same with roller bearings for all the gears.
Have the plastic double-roller type used in good shape.
A whole new set of metal caged ones is around maybe $100.

Sliders i have look decent,
But, boy, a new slider should make the shifting good forever..!
1-2 is $100..
A new late 091 3-4 slider is $125… And NLA!

The used stuff will work no doubt,
But to pop for these here now??
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[vwracerdave]

A TYPE III IRS should have come with a "DC" code gearbox. 4.12 R&P with 3.80/2.06/1.26/.89 possibly having the 4.12K and course tooth 3-4. If it were mine that is what gears I'd choose to keep for a heavy Type III. The 4.12 will have a little more zip in 1-2-3 gears.

The 3.88 with .93 4th gear and the 4.12 with .89 4th gear have almost the exact same final drive ratio, so your highway cruising speed will be the same either way.

Even with 130-140 HP 2110 with a heavy Type III I still don't think I would run the 3.88 with .89 4th.

Don't forget on a Type III the dimple on the hockey stick for the shift rod coupler goes down.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[Clatter]

[VWporscheGT3]

[[email protected]]

80 at 3800 with a 205/65 15 is about right for a 4.12/.89, so that kind of gives you the best experience for a 4.12 with stock ratios. If you’re going to go with the early coarse gears, maybe see if you can locate an OEM VW 1.32 3rd. I recently put together a 3.78/2.06/1.35/.89 combo with a Weddle 3rd for a Beetle, and the spacing worked out pretty nice imo. 3800 may wind the new engine pretty tight, and may create more heat than the cooling system can eliminate. I agree with Dave that a 3.88./89 may be too much for a Type 3 though. I’d see how the same 4.12/.89 works.

If you have used components that are close to new spec, there’s no reason not to use them. If the reverse teeth are good on your 1-2 slider, and the engagement teeth aren’t trashed on either, I would reuse them. If you’re getting .035+ stand off on the syncros, I’d use them. Used ones shift smooth from the get go, and don’t need any break in time. You could get a new mainshaft bearing if you want. Clean, and inspect the roller bearings for pits, or odd wear patterns. If the rollers are smooth/shiney, and the gear spins smoothly on them, I’d reuse them.

Realistically think how many miles the car will get on it? It’s great to build for the greatest length of reliability, but most fair weather vehicles take decades to accumulate the mileage these things were getting in 5-10 years when new.

[VWporscheGT3]

the car has been back on the road for two years , i have put about 30k on it in that time, been having so much fun driving it again that i drive it whenever I can.
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Clatter]

15K miles a year is a LOT!

With lease deals on new cars 10K/year is where they start charging ‘mileage overage’ on what a new car should be driven..

While I’m happy to throw it together with the best used stuff i have here,
And a lot of it is pretty good,
Trevor lives in another state,
So getting the box back here for more work is a PITA.

Something about bearings, they just seem like such a “replacement item” .
Anything else you overhaul gets bearings, right?

Weddle doesn’t have any pinion bearings.
200 bucks if you get a new nut to go with it! 🤪
https://www.evwparts.com/vwparts/091311219.html

Trevor, go buy some scratchers!

Back about 25 years ago i used to get rebuilds from Kevin Pirtle at Trans West.
No core, shipped up from LA for $325(!)
While they worked well enough for daily driving, and for a long time too,
The R/P would be whiny or the shifting would feel kinda vague.
Not the end of the world, but certainly not a new box.
Now i know what we had - a collection of good used parts.

If that’s what you want, Trevor, i can get this right together as soon as the side cover shows up.

If you want a new(er) trans, there’s the $100, $200, $300 version and up!

Those good old German parts last a long time, though..

Dag,
This is the hard part for me with building these!
Where to stop?
On one hand, i felt the fool for spending $1,000 on all new everything even reverse idler bearings.
On the other hand, it -sure- would suck to have a box go bad in another state cause of some part you can get for 20 bucks!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

On a happier note..

Things we will get to do on this one:

Pretty paint and a shiny side cover.
I’ll set up 1St with it’s proper .010 using a hardened washer.
2nd will get .008 and it’ll all get retained tight with a fitted circlip.
The faces of all gears will get polished flat on the surface plate.
Drill both hubs for oil holes.
Face 3-4 hub for an 091 snap ring to keep 4th from galling.
Steel forks.
Bruce plate to retain mainshaft bearing.

For sure the 10-tooth late diff and heavy side cover will be sweet with new carrier bearings.
I’m looking forward to setting all of these diff parts up just so.
Strange parts from different boxes make for a fun challenge.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[[email protected]]

Yes, 15k is a lot. I guess you’re going to have to decide if you want a budget build, and let the cards fall where they may, or do a full build with a lot of new components. I’ve never followed a build past 50k, so I couldn’t tell you if the difference in used/new parts is going to be another 5k, or another 50k of durability. A lot of builds were budget builds where customers didn’t want to spring for new bearings/etc., and they have all held up well so far.

I can check on a nosecone this weekend, but it might not get to you until late in the week with shipping.