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Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in?
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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

n1 wrote:
I'm going to order new pistons, cylinders and heads from cip1 and go with that. I've got to check the main seal too but I couldn't get that big nut off. Hopefully I can get this thing running again before the summer is over.


Before you order those parts, crack that case to see what you have. That flywheel nut is installed with about 250 ftlbs. You can make a flywheel tool using flat bar. Once held, it’s not hard to remove that nut. Use a 3 or 4 foot or longer cheater bar.

You mentioned your engine had been leaking oil for a couple of years. Was this on top of the case coming from your oil cooler? The reason to know is you were losing oil pressure by this massive leak and that would have starved your pistons and bottom end of lubrication. Thus your seized piston.

You may get lucky on the bottom end. The only way to know is to open it up. Take the other members advice and get a VW Mechanic with the tooling to get you going. One last thing, advice is beneficial, but read those books. The Muir book is very good. The others help too. Each one may cover something a little better.
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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Do this, take a feeler gage or dial indicator and measure the flywheel end play before you remove the flywheel. I can bet there’s a lot of play. This will be good to know later. Your case may be slap worn out and a new seal won’t do a thing.
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n1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

No. I'm going to leave it for now. I had a couple friends come check it out. One is a mechanical engineer that builds giant motors and things I don't understand and the other is a former VW mechanic (he just bought his own Ghia and is restoring it). They said my case and it's guts looked good. I have to go with first hand experience and actually putting eyes on the problem.
I'm going to order parts and start cleaning everything meticulously.

Thanks for all the help, I'm really grateful for all the insight and advice, and I'll update when I'm rebuilding. Probably with questions.
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n1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Sorry, I wrote back and didn't see the last 2 responses. Didn't mean to be rude.

We checked the play in the flywheel and it was surprisingly really tight. it was apparent that the clutch had been replaced probably not long before i got the car. It looked really good.

I'm going to go over everything as I clean looking for leaks but after some inspection it is clear that the oil cooler was leaking pretty bad. All the oil seems to be stemming from there. On the bright side....It did make it really easy to get everything apart.

Quote:

You can make a flywheel tool using flat bar. Once held, it’s not hard to remove that nut. Use a 3 or 4 foot or longer cheater bar.


I'm intrigued by this. Do you have an image? My friend that was a former vw mechanic gave the same 250 ftlb spec you did. There were 2 of us holding down the block while he was trying his best to bust it loose but I didn't have the right tools.

Thanks for the insight. Please keep it coming.
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n1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Hi all. I was hoping for a little advice on ordering new parts. This is the number on my current head and I want to be sure it matches what I'm about to order. I just busted my a$$ for 3 days in the heat to pay for the parts I need. This is big money for me and I don't want to screw this up.

Here is a pic of the numbers on my head. Looks like 113 101 375 A

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm ordering these new heads

https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-043-101-355-ckhl/

and these pistons/cylinders. I measured the existing cylinders and they are 85.5mm

https://www2.cip1.com/c24-311-198-069-f/

If this is wrong, or there are better parts for a comparable price, please let me know. I'm also ordering a rear seal, gasket kit and a flywheel lock tool.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Do I need anything else?

Thanks so much for all the help. I'm learning a ton and I'm getting ready to start cleaning parts for the rebuild.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

A Ring Compressor comes to mind amid the flurry of recollection.
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n1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Ahhh. Thanks. I'll add it to the pile.
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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

n1 wrote:
Sorry, I wrote back and didn't see the last 2 responses. Didn't mean to be rude.

We checked the play in the flywheel and it was surprisingly really tight. it was apparent that the clutch had been replaced probably not long before i got the car. It looked really good.

I'm going to go over everything as I clean looking for leaks but after some inspection it is clear that the oil cooler was leaking pretty bad. All the oil seems to be stemming from there. On the bright side....It did make it really easy to get everything apart.

Quote:

You can make a flywheel tool using flat bar. Once held, it’s not hard to remove that nut. Use a 3 or 4 foot or longer cheater bar.


I'm intrigued by this. Do you have an image? My friend that was a former vw mechanic gave the same 250 ftlb spec you did. There were 2 of us holding down the block while he was trying his best to bust it loose but I didn't have the right tools.

Thanks for the insight. Please keep it coming.


Sorry for the delay. I haven’t been here for a few days. I can’t believe it but I gave my tool away when I moved. Here are a few pointers on making one. Four foot length of flat bar about 3/8” thick. Measure the flywheel bolt holes distance apart at 180*. Mark bar and drill holes sized for the flywheel bolts. Then measure between your holes and cut out a large slot in order to fit your flywheel socket. Your bar needs to be about four inches wide. You can order the small tool sold by some engine builder/suppliers. I made my tool long before the internet and I was poor. If you don’t have a torque wrench capable of the 250 ftlbs you can go old school and use an object held on the end of your cheater bar with socket. Using a four foot cheater bar with a 60 lb weight controlling the drop you’ll get close to 250ft lbs. Then just give it an extra tug and your done. Just keep your holes on one end of the bar. The other ends rests on the garage floor.
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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

I forgot to mention one advantage for making the tool out of bar is it eliminates holding the engine from tipping. By todays standards this is very crude, but it does work and it’s cheap.
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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

n1 wrote:
Sorry, I wrote back and didn't see the last 2 responses. Didn't mean to be rude.

We checked the play in the flywheel and it was surprisingly really tight. it was apparent that the clutch had been replaced probably not long before i got the car. It looked really good.

I'm going to go over everything as I clean looking for leaks but after some inspection it is clear that the oil cooler was leaking pretty bad. All the oil seems to be stemming from there. On the bright side....It did make it really easy to get everything apart.

Quote:

You can make a flywheel tool using flat bar. Once held, it’s not hard to remove that nut. Use a 3 or 4 foot or longer cheater bar.


I'm intrigued by this. Do you have an image? My friend that was a former vw mechanic gave the same 250 ftlb spec you did. There were 2 of us holding down the block while he was trying his best to bust it loose but I didn't have the right tools.

Thanks for the insight. Please keep it coming.


I made a new tool and since you asked, here is my latest version. Now you won’t need any help holding the engine. One foot on the engine when it starts to lift and one hand on the 3/4” drive socket with cheater bar.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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n1
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Thanks for the pics. I made the same setup with an 8ft 2x6. I split the first one but staggered the bolts the second time and it worked. I got a new job and haven't had a ton of time lately. I got new pistons, cylinders and heads on but haven't touched it in a while.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

I'm Back. The engine is ready to go back in. I had to dismantle a few things when I found parts that I missed, but there don't seem to be any parts left that need to go on before the engine goes in. I'm going to try to get it in this weekend if I can get some help.

I've learned that my distributor does not match my 34-3 carb and that I should replace it. I'm hoping to run with what I have for now. The 034 distributor is hard to come by and seems contentious. Lots of differing opinions that I don't fully understand
My distributor: 113905205AJ. My Carb :VW326_2 34 pict 3

Does anyone see anything that I missed? Wish me luck and thanks.

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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

n1, you have the AE case. Your AJ dizzy and 34 pict 3 carb are correct for your engine. I looked it up for you from one of my reference manuals.

Your build is coming along nicely. I am curious though, how did you torque the flywheel nut to achieve the 253 ft lbs.
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n1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Thanks. I was told that my carb should be with 034 and everything I read says that the 34-3 goes with a 034. I don't really know? I find it all very confusing.

I borrowed a torque wrench from a friend that went to 300ft lbs. Bolted a 8ft 2x6 to the flywheel so it wouldn't flip over. I saw folks using angle iron bolted on but I didn't have a piece. Wood worked great.

I'll update if I get it installed soon. Thanks again.

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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Your distributor is correct for your AE engine. The 034 was for the 1974 engines and is supposed to be fine with the 34 pict carbs.
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n1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Well thank you very much. I really wasn't excited about dropping $200+ on a distributor. You made my day. And.....I can stop reading about distributors.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Nice idea with the 2 X 6.
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Not to add to your distributor anxieties, but the 205AJ distributor is a DVDA dizzy, and yours looks to still have the DVDA vacuum canister on it, which is much thicker than the SVDA canister on the 034 (aka 205, no letter suffix).
If you look on the back side of the vacuum canister, you should find another port for the vacuum retard hose, like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The DVDA dizzys only play well with 34-3 carbs that were made for DVDA dizzys. The way you know you have the correct carb is that it'll have a larger hole in the throttle plate than the SVDA 34-3, as well as the vacuum retard port. The larger hole is required for a solid idle the way DVDA's are timed. Or you can also cross reference on this list. But given the age of all these parts, having a carb with the matching base flange number doesn't guarantee anything, as a PO could've changed out the throttle plate.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I have a 377-2 carb and a matching 205AN dizzy. Happy to take any photos of my carb for your reference. The DVDA dizzys do need to be timed to 5 degrees ATDC (unlike the SVDA 034 which is timed BTDC), so you also need to make sure that you have the correct pulley with the ATDC timing mark.

If you mismatch a DVDA dizzy with a non-DVDA 34-3, or an SVDA dizzy with a non-SVDA 34-3, you'll likely never get it to run correctly, so everything needs to be either DVDA-focused or SVDA-focused.
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Last edited by Era Vulgaris on Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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n1
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

Interesting. My distributor is the top line on the chart (113905205AJ) but my carb is not even on the chart (VW326_2). So confusing. I think I've seen this chart before and that's why I thought my carb and distributor didn't match. So so confusing

I got the engine about half way in today but I couldn't do it myself. It will rest there for the night in hopes that I can get help tomorrow.

Thanks for the info.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ruined Piston. How much trouble am I in? Reply with quote

I’ve been going back over this after Era V’s post. I took a look at Glutamodos table and it doesn’t show VW362-2. It does show VW362-1 and VW362-3 but skips your number.

http://members.trainorders.com/android/temp/CarbBaseFlangeNumbersA.doc
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