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dtto
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| buspor63 wrote: |
It's great to see this working so well on older, high mileage WBX engines. My question is, what if you re-built a WBX to make the most of it?
What would the recipe be? MS 1.35:1 rockers, injectors, ported heads?, Rocky Jennings 2.2 P/C's, stock/power/torque? cam and a RMW/10cent exhaust? |
Well, I am about to find out! My '87 Westy has been with Eion's for the last month or so. I'm getting a GW 2.3 installed to replace the ailing '86 Jetta TD. Also has a completely rebuilt gearbox as it was an automatic and I always wanted manual. The engine and gearbox are in as of last Friday.
I'm hoping to get it back in the next few weeks and will report back! Can't wait. My kids are clamoring to hit the road for some camping!
Here's the old '86 Jetta TD. No idea how many miles it had on it as I was at least the third owner of this engine and when I got it the odometer was broken. Farewell, sooty prince!
And here are some progress shots from last Friday.
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Blueberry now: '87 westy with GW2.3 WBX running Mansi EFI
Blueberry before: '87 westy with a '86 Jetta 1.6 TD
Last edited by dtto on Sat May 13, 2023 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 7:14 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Nothing to say about the EM system, but choosing a solid, smooth, flexible, clean-running powerplant? Smart move!
That should stimulate some discussion.
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Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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dtto
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:23 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Hey everyone!
I wanted to report back on Blueberry 2.0. I got her back from Eion's last Thursday. Had a plan to take the kiddos down to PDX to visit grandma but opted to take the boring car instead since I don't yet have 1k miles on the GW WBX 2.3.
Now, I don't have anything to compare the 2.3 with/without the Mansi because it's only ever had the Mansi, but what I can say is that the new engine with Mansi is amazing! It's responsive and has plenty of power and the engine just purrs. Coming off of the 1.6 diesel there is a huge improvement in power and responsiveness. The thing just jumps at the bit to get going.
If anyone else in the Seattle area has a GW 2.3 with the GW EFI kit, we could compare the two.
Can't wait to finish breaking it in to take it on some longer trips! I'm using it as my daily driver until I get some miles on it. First camping trip is in two weeks!
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Blueberry now: '87 westy with GW2.3 WBX running Mansi EFI
Blueberry before: '87 westy with a '86 Jetta 1.6 TD |
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MayoMan
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2014
Posts: 48
Location: Yucaipa,ca
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 10:59 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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I'm loving all the good news regarding the Mansi EFI. Anyone try to get this to pass smog in California? Is there anything we can do to remove stickers and be dumb with the smog place during the visual inspection? When I bought my van it didn't have any California smog stickers that the inspector could find. I figure it was because it was originally from the east coast and never lived in California until now.
I realize the Mansi EFI isn't CARB approved but is there a way to get it past the smog gods? If it is 'better' you'd think there would be a way. Yeah, it might be wishful thinking knowing GoWesty spent a bunch of time, effort, and dollars to register their solution.
-Brad
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1965 Sundial Camper
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Here in CA, they don't give "stickers" when you get a regular smog inspection. They test the car and do visual inspection for proper equipment. Short of having a friend who has a smog test station and is willing to risk his business for you, you'll never "sneek" it past. Best bet is to keep the stock EFI and distributor and reinstall it for smog test every two years.
Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Delete
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender
Last edited by hdenter on Wed May 31, 2023 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Delete
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
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ilocan
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 6
Location: Kirkland, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| dtto wrote: |
If anyone else in the Seattle area has a GW 2.3 with the GW EFI kit, we could compare the two.
Can't wait to finish breaking it in to take it on some longer trips! I'm using it as my daily driver until I get some miles on it. First camping trip is in two weeks! |
I have a fresh GW 2.3 on my Van with approx 1000miles on the engine. Im still using the original 1985 digijet fuel injection. I would be willing to do a comparison with yours. I'm in Bothell area. I'm seriously considering upgrading to Mansi EFI.
https://youtube.com/shorts/3ERFBHMQrmc?feature=share |
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RainierSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2013
Posts: 806
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:24 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Been driving my Mansi conversion from Eion's shop for a couple of months now. It's extremely revy. A new throttle cable was installed and everything was greased up. It takes so little effort now to really rev it to the moon. Two things are popping up that might need some adjusting.
1. At first start up, it goes straight to 2,200rpms and slowly comes back down to 1000. Mansi says that's normal. Anybody having the same situation? I usually leave for work at 3am and a neighbor asked me why am I "stomping on the gas" when I start the van.
2. Bouncing rpms - This happens during the first 10 miles driving. I'll be at 3,500rpms in second. I come up to a stoplight and push in the clutch. What is suppose to happen is the rpms go from 3,500 and drop down to 1,000 (idle) and stay there. Well, what's happening now is the rpms drop below 1000 and the computer catches itself and over corrects and shoots the rpms to 1800, drops down to 1000, bounces up to 1400, drops down to 900 and then shoots back up to 1800. It slowly levels out the up and down eventually settling back to 1000. If I know I have to stop ahead, I'll go down the gears and bring the rpms down gradually. That seems to work. It just doesn't like any sudden drops in rpms. If I have to get moving while it's doing it's up & down routine, I might stall it by not getting on the gas at the right time.
Since this system is programable, I'm sure there is an adjustment to fix it. Other than those 2 situations I love the bump in power. Hills I had to drop down into second for can now be done in third. |
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Bub
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Central Washington
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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I've had the Manis FI for 6 months or more. Went through some issues, which I will say were likely totally unrelated to the Fuel injection for the most part.
But what I will say is the idle can be a sort of problem area, and MUCH more of a problem due to possible unknown areas in your engine that may be worn.
Marco will show up and have better advice, but for in the meantime see if you can disconnect the ISV and adjust your idle via the throttle body flat screw. When I was having issues I couldn't run the ISV in the system hardly at all, it was totally unpredictable especially at cold start. I rigged up a temp relay to trigger the ISV until coolant hit a certain temp. And it worked fantastic for the whole winter.
But from what I went through- if Marco can't find some tweaks that smooth it out - you have an air leak or blowby that's causing the wideband to correct the mixture intermittently. In my case it was 2 bent valves ( i mean bent by 0.0000", but bent nonetheless) and one hammered valve seat.
The Microquirt is VERY reliable, but also I don't think it can make as miniscule changes as DIGI does originally. And I think at times it attempts to correct changes that are a result of it's own over-correcting of changes ; if that makes sense?
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| Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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valvecovergasket
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| RainierSyncro wrote: |
1. At first start up, it goes straight to 2,200rpms and slowly comes back down to 1000. Mansi says that's normal. Anybody having the same situation? I usually leave for work at 3am and a neighbor asked me why am I "stomping on the gas" when I start the van.
2. Bouncing rpms |
you can set this in the idle control target table. im not sure if hes got it set for closed loop idle or open loop (MS calls this warmup mode) but you can either drop the target (if closed loop) or drop the warmup % (if in open loop warmup mode)
2200 is crazy high. usually id shoot for a handful of hundred rpm over hot idle if youre adding a bunch at startup. that post cranking transition shouldnt be more than a few seconds. 10 tops, lets say.
but, thats all calibratable..
as for your second point ...
| Bub wrote: |
But what I will say is the idle can be a sort of problem area, and MUCH more of a problem due to possible unknown areas in your engine that may be worn. |
this is an issue with offering a plug and play option with a standalone.
youre going to bump into situations with various engine combos, ambient conditions, etc that end up needing some hand adjustments.
that said - your 1800 -> 900 cycling sounds like maybe its popping in and out of idle mode, again not knowing how hes got it configured for open or closed loop.
but as a start i would check your TPS calibration, that its showing 0% at closed throttle, or it should be pretty obvious in a datalog.
if thats not it, then what youre describing sounds a lot like a not-quite finished closed loop calibration that isnt playing nice with your specific engine and base throttle opening.
| Bub wrote: |
The Microquirt is VERY reliable, but also I don't think it can make as miniscule changes as DIGI does originally. And I think at times it attempts to correct changes that are a result of it's own over-correcting of changes ; if that makes sense? |
i would tend to disagree. in terms of processing and calibratable parameters its like comparing your smart phone to an abacus. but, the digi was optimized by teams of people for that specific hardware in every ambient condition under the sun.
like i mentioned above its tough to have a one size fits all solution with standalone that doesnt require some fine tuning by the end user because the calibration effort is never going to be oem-like out of the box.
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gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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dtto
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| ilocan wrote: |
| dtto wrote: |
If anyone else in the Seattle area has a GW 2.3 with the GW EFI kit, we could compare the two.
Can't wait to finish breaking it in to take it on some longer trips! I'm using it as my daily driver until I get some miles on it. First camping trip is in two weeks! |
I have a fresh GW 2.3 on my Van with approx 1000miles on the engine. Im still using the original 1985 digijet fuel injection. I would be willing to do a comparison with yours. I'm in Bothell area. I'm seriously considering upgrading to Mansi EFI.
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I'm down! I'm over in South Seattle. Maybe we can meet up somewhere? Hit me up on a PM and we can figure something out.
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Blueberry now: '87 westy with GW2.3 WBX running Mansi EFI
Blueberry before: '87 westy with a '86 Jetta 1.6 TD |
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9.5isCanadian
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 465
Location: In your blind spot.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Hi all.
As I’m waiting for my kit to arrive I’ve been studying his thread.
Wanted to ask about the distributor removal.
I see some peeps mentioning the washer woes related to it falling inside the motor. When I study the Bentley schematic the washer resides beneath the drive gear assembly. Removing the distributor doesn’t disturb this assembly.
So if the distributor is removed what keeps the drive assembly in place?
The manual references a puller tool to remove it, suggesting to me it’s a tight fit?
Will it stay in place without the distributor? If so, why the concerns regard the washer?
🤔
Any help would be appreciated.
Owen
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1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4777
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:01 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| 9.5isCanadian wrote: |
So if the distributor is removed what keeps the drive assembly in place?
The manual references a puller tool to remove it, suggesting to me it’s a tight fit?
Will it stay in place without the distributor? If so, why the concerns regard the washer? |
gravity and stiction hold the drive gear in place. you can remove the distributor without disturbing the gear as the drive cogs are a loose fit and it does not pull the drive gear up with the distributor. there is a small spring that you watch for that is between the dist and the gear. this spring keeps the distributor drive tight at the bottom of the bore, taking up the clearance from loose distributor fit.
BUT!!!! once the distributor is out, NEVER EVER turn the engine crankshaft either by hand or starter motor. that will cause the steel gear to jam against the brass crankshaft gear and all manner of woe will follow including possibly lifting the drive up high enough for the washers to slip out of place.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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boxer74
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Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:24 am Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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I've got a kit on order for my 84. It has a 2.1 built using a 1.9 case and still has the 1.9 cooling system, digijet, intake, etc. Before ordering I talked to Marco via messenger about the extra parts and steps involved to make it work on my 1.9 case, so I'm confident this is something I can take care of in my garage but curious if anyone else has installed on a 1.9 before and can offer any feedback? I will be hopefully tackling the install in a few months when I pull the van out of winter storage.
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84 Westy |
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Jake59
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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I did not use a 1.9 case, but I was one of the earlier driveway mechanic (i.e. non-professionals) installs of Marco's EFI kit. What I can say is Marco was almost real time with his responses on Messenger.
You will get through your install and then on to enjoy the smoothest power response ever felt from a 40 yo WBX.
 to the Manispeed team
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Curent ride: 87 2WD Westy, 2012 Jetta Sportwagon 2.5S
Past Rides: 62 (23 window) Bus, 64 Ghai convertable, 68 single cab, 72 Super Bettle, 78 Bay window Bus, 84 GTI. |
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jakokombi
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Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 777
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| boxer74 wrote: |
| I've got a kit on order for my 84. It has a 2.1 built using a 1.9 case and still has the 1.9 cooling system, digijet, intake, etc. Before ordering I talked to Marco via messenger about the extra parts and steps involved to make it work on my 1.9 case, so I'm confident this is something I can take care of in my garage but curious if anyone else has installed on a 1.9 before and can offer any feedback? I will be hopefully tackling the install in a few months when I pull the van out of winter storage. |
Boxer, I've got a GW 2.2 (1.9 based) in my 85 and will be installing the MansiSpeed setup. I was aware of some modification needed to the intake, can you say more about what Marco has said?
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boxer74
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Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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| jakokombi wrote: |
| boxer74 wrote: |
| I've got a kit on order for my 84. It has a 2.1 built using a 1.9 case and still has the 1.9 cooling system, digijet, intake, etc. Before ordering I talked to Marco via messenger about the extra parts and steps involved to make it work on my 1.9 case, so I'm confident this is something I can take care of in my garage but curious if anyone else has installed on a 1.9 before and can offer any feedback? I will be hopefully tackling the install in a few months when I pull the van out of winter storage. |
Boxer, I've got a GW 2.2 (1.9 based) in my 85 and will be installing the MansiSpeed setup. I was aware of some modification needed to the intake, can you say more about what Marco has said? |
With the 1.9 cooling system, he needs to supply a modified crank sensor bracket to clear a coolant pipe that isn't there on stock 2.1 cooling setups. For the intake, I gather there's a spacer needed so that the 2.1 plenum will bolt to the case, and I think you also need the 2.1 intake runners that are the same size as as plenum. You also need the 2.1 intake boot, idle control valve and associated hoses. I've tried to assemble as many of these bits as I can to be ready for when the kit arrives and I pull the van out of winter storage. I'm sure I will need to source some small items here and there, but it sounds workable. For now I'm planning to use my 1.9 air cleaner, but he said it would need to be 'adapted'. His setup is meant to work with the 2.1 air cleaner I believe.
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jakokombi
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Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 777
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Boxer, from his website: "Note: 1.9 applications require some modification to use a 2.l manifold center section on a 1.9 case ... you will also need to source a 2.1l air filter housing and an idle control valve."
When I ordered, I specified that I had a GW 2.2 (1.9). I don't know if there are two different brackets, but mine didn't appear modified.
It was however a real pain to install. Get all of your 1/4 drive,10 mm sockets, flex rods, swivels and micro ratchets together, then start looking for a double jointed leprechaun.
I expect the other stuff will be minor.
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jakokombi
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Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 777
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: MansiSpeed EFI kit is a hit! |
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Apologies, I just looked again at that box of goodness from MansiSpeed.
Apparently my addled mind forgot about this nice pice (even has my name on it).
As further penace, a pic of the intake plenum. I think it would be pretty simple to adapt many types of filters to it.
Feel free to pm me for more pics.
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