Annual Colorado backyard trip (with near-death bonus)

[joetiger]

Thanks for the kind words!

[tjet]

Awesome trip report. I have a few questions.

* On the crazy scary part, were you going downhill?

* Do you have bigger brakes?

* Any brake fade?

* Whats your tire size, tire pressure, & R&P?

* Any excessive body sway in the technical stuff with the hightop & arm increase?

I think that supercharged engine you have in there really helped. I keep wondering if a lower R&P, say a 5.83 would have given you a little more comfort in the really difficult stuff. I do think a locker would have been a safe thing to have on standby though. I don't think it would have been safe to get out of your van at all if you had a tire in the air.

I'm glad someone is out there testing the max limits of these syncros

[njg02]

Joe. Thanks for the ride. You guys have some great scenery over there.
We went out on the weekend on our first real 4wd test and the non locker passed the test with ease.
Neil
_________________
1971 Super Beetle. Almost ready to roll.
1991 Syncro Camper

[joetiger]

* On the crazy scary part, were you going downhill?

Yeah, going down the Ouray (west) side of the pass.

* Do you have bigger brakes?

No, brakes are stock and well-maintained.

* Any brake fade?

No, there wasn't a whole lot of braking necessary, I spent most of the time in Granny or 1st gear. I had to brake a lot on the serious drops, of course, to ease over the steps. I did ride the brakes when it got to the steeper downhill towards the end of the trail. But they held up fine.

Once you're off the trail, you still have about another 1000 feet of elevation drop into Ouray on highway 550, and the brakes weren't an issue.

* Whats your tire size, tire pressure, & R&P?

215/75/15 Grabber ATX aired down to 30.

GT 4.86 R&P

* Any excessive body sway in the technical stuff with the hightop & arm increase?

There were a few extremely sketchy off-camber sections, and places I had to go up on the mountain side of the trail to let others through.

There were a few steps where I was rocking off of the right rear and onto the left front where I thought I was going to roll. More precarious than any of the craziness I've been involved in in Moab. Those are the spots where I just about shit my pants.

I don't think the high top makes a lot of difference; I only put light, soft gear up there so weight shouldn't be an issue.

I think that supercharged engine you have in there really helped. I keep wondering if a lower R&P, say a 5.83 would have given you a little more comfort in the really difficult stuff. I do think a locker would have been a safe thing to have on standby though. I don't think it would have been safe to get out of your van at all if you had a tire in the air.

The uphill side from Lake City had a few wet, rutted, muddy, steep spots above tree line, mostly coming out of switchbacks. The extra power definitely helped there, but I felt confident in low crawling up those sections. If it had been dry, the Lake City side to the summit would have been much easier and nothing too serious.

On the nasty Ouray side, I spun the tires a few times getting through rock gardens, but never felt like I was in danger of getting stuck. I was more concerned with clearance and the drop-offs/shelves.

I got out of the van at the summit and at that grove with the pack of jeeps, and also one time further up on a switchback on the Ouray side. I couldn't see around the corner on that one for what was ahead so I got out to take a look.

I remember shaking my head and shrugging my shoulders because there was no good line, I just had to go straight through. That was one of the spots where I thought I was going to go off the edge.

I'm glad someone is out there testing the max limits of these syncros

By accident! But I'm very proud of the van. I think it got in my head a little that every single other person on the mountain expressed no confidence in my Syncro. And not knowing what was coming really freaked me out.

The Canadian LR Discovery dudes seemed really shaken after coming up from Ouray, even though their rigs looked super capable. And they were nice dudes (Canadians) but seemed really concerned about what I was headed into. That definitely got to me.

One thing about Jeep people, they are confident to a fault. They never want any of their peers to know that they're wigging out I guess.

I think a more lifted Syncro with bigger tires and lower gearing could have done better than mine did. I just didn't have enough clearance for the really ugly sections, and the articulation issue is what it is.

But then I wonder if a higher Syncro would have had a higher center of gravity and would have had more chance of rolling over? I don't know enough about 4 wheeling or physics to know.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[tjet]

One more question, was there anything you would have done different looking back - like bring less stuff, or secured this or that more?

I know what you mean when you say freaked out. I've had mild PTSD a few times after off roading trips driving too close to the edge.

A huge bunus on the syncros & vanagans is the tight turning radius

[joetiger]

[mtnhome]

Sounds like a awesome trip, wish I could have made it down to Boulder yesterday to hear about it.
Glad to see vans really getting used!
_________________
'84 Westy, '93 Subaru ej22 and Subarugears 5speed
Build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763098&highlight=

[steve244]

Monarch pass on dry pavement is more my speed.

Hat's off to you!
_________________
82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...

[jimf909]

Thanks for the enthralling trip report. Pushing boundaries is interesting. Being risk averse I don't do it often but it sure can create memories and learnings.
_________________
- Jim

[tjet]

I keep thinking a naturally aspirated engine at that altitude would have caused you to rev it a bit more. I could see issues with that on delicate, multi point turns. That's been my experience, anyway, along with the engine stalling. That Army film at 3:45 they tested engines at Pike's Peak.


Link


Link


Your van has "air supremacy"

[Pcforno]

I've been over enigneer pass in my Syncro westy. biggest issue is that even in granny gear you can't crawl as low as any of the rigs with a true transfer case. this makes you hit things on the uphill faster than you would like for fear of stalling out, then not having enough low end torque to get back over the obstacle (I have a chipped 1.8t that starts to meaningfully spool at 2300 RPM).
for me its not so much the geometry and limited travel of the suspension (which is certainly a factor) but the low gearing just isnt low enough for most of our engine conversions. Perhaps not an issue with a diesel conversion, IDK.
FWIW I have slightly larger tires than Joe (235/70 R 16)

[shadetreemech]

(Sigh). Thanks, I needed that.

Nice job, all the way round.
_________________
'84 GL 1.9
'01 Volvo V70 T5
'88 Westy - "MZDRTHY"

[joetiger]

My relatively small tires and Schwenk standard height springs (in addition to the conditions) were my biggest issues. With everything soaking wet, I was sliding on rock towards the cliff edge several times, which scared the shit out of me.

I didn't have any problems with tire slip or torque; it was really all clearance. I spun the tires once or twice, but I don't recall being concerned about it. I had enough grunt to get through the tough spots, and I think the TT 260/256 cam helped out.

I think the climb from the Ouray side would have been much more difficult, making those shelf climbs and trying to avoid rocks. There are a few on the Lake City climb, but the trail is wider and the shelf spots aren't as tall.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[dobryan]

[joetiger]

[Earl Bay]

Quite a fun read, solid story telling! Sounded grueling. Especially in those conditions
Too bad you didn't film it, it appears you'd have been the first to document a Syncro ride over the top of Engineer.

I watched the defender video, doesn't actually look that bad, but then again GoPros usually don't document the truth. And sitting at the wheel looking over the edge sliding towards it on wet stones, a totaly different story, I get it.

[steve244]

Maybe a drone next time. You can be controlling it to fly alongside and take video as you battle the switchbacks.
_________________
82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...

[joetiger]

For the next Syncro pilot who wishes to do that trail solo in the rain, I'll follow in one of those big ass Jeeps and shoot video. To preserve realism, I won't be allowed to offer any suggestions or spot/guide in any way.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[tjet]

[brickster]