Name That Sound!!!!!!!

[8675-30-9]

Okay guys and gals.

VEHICLE: 1975 VW WESTY, MANUAL TRANS, 1800cc, FUEL INJECTED
Current dwell: 44 deg
Current timing: 4 deg BTDC set here or the recommended 5 deg ATDC. Doesn’t make a difference.

Name this sound, it is so random I don’t know what to think. Sometimes it is frequent and sometime it’s silenced. This is an engine noise and only presents itself under load. Bonus points for a fix. Your time is hugely appreciated. Thank you.

https://mavrikblakinc-my.sharepoint.com/:u:/g/pers...kcATidri4w
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1975 Westfalia, 1800 Fuel Injection, 0-60 in 3 tries!! Love the stylin' factor.

[SGKent]

where is the noise loudest?

Carb or FI
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[richparker]

Sounds like a game Robbie would play.

So my guess is lifters.
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
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[timvw7476]

it's probably afterfire, due to your messed up timing.
You say the call out is 5 degrees After TDC? VW had some goofy emissions settings in the '74-'75 years, & it all works if the vacuum retard & advance cans are both working. Most times, the retard portion, the spigot pointing back at the distributor body, is long since blown out & you revert to the later 2.0L setting, meaning 7.5 degrees Before TDC, at idle, all hoses plugged. Checking that it gets to 28 degrees or so at 3,500 rpm, checking with a timing light on the VW scale of course. Then you hook up your advance hose, leave the retard off & plugged at the hose. Drive THAT. : )
Also, dwell, not really into it, when you set a new set of uncratered points, at .016", the dwell naturally falls in the vicinity of 48-50 degrees. We lube the rubbing block, drop a few droplets engine oil on the felt at the center of the distributor shaft (impeded oil vapor from getting up in there & wreaking havoc)
And we drive 12-14k with no further service. At least that's my way. YMMV.

[8675-30-9]

[airschooled]

Valves adjusted?
No tin screws dropped down the intake?
Intake system checked for vacuum leaks?
Fuel pressure check 28-38psi with no kinks in any hoses?

Put a vacuum gauge in place of the small decel valve hose. A needle tick along with he noise indicates a head/valve/cam issue. Most FLAPS rent them for free.

Robbie
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[timvw7476]

Wishing you luck with it, I did neglect o mention WHY the 5 degrees After TDC timing gets tossed. It's the vacuum retard feature, that retard portion of the can is what pulls the points plate way back to that setting. So if you dare to set your idle timing there, with a known or unknown bad vacuum retard can, you've essentially set the entire timing curve back many degrees, never to arrive at the 28-30 degrees Before TDC these engines prefer to run at.

With a failed retard, the vacuum advance pull can only do so much, timing remains retarded, EVERYWHERE. The centrifugal advance weights can't correct it either. That's why a timing light is critical, to see/measure both idle spark event as well as full centrifugal spark event at higher engine speeds, then plugging the known good advance can up to the system to 'add' extra degrees as well.

[SGKent]

Daddy are we there yet?

It is some kind of misfire. You need to listen closely with a piece of hose to find exactly where the sound is coming from to isolate the potential causes. when you tell us exactly where it is coming from we can tell you where to look next.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[8675-30-9]

[8675-30-9]

[SGKent]

[8675-30-9]

[timvw7476]

a vacuum advance only can will work just fine.
Around the Westcoast of the US, year old gas is a question mark, newer cars with solenoid-sealed fuel tanks may use it, but in older vehicles, the ethanol fuel collects water & ages quickly. Like unusable in a two-stroke engine in sixty days quickly. Four strokes have an easier time burning it but not by much.

[SGKent]

there is a tiny spring inside the lifter, You have to be able to feel it still able to move to full extended before you take your two turns. I think you have that but if the sound is coming from the plenum it is either a misfire like a crossed plug wire or carbon track in the cap, or the valve is leaking. If a valve is leaking it is either adjustment or the seat. This assumes you have the timing set to approx factory for whatever distributor type that ended up in it.

[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1778938[/img]

[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1778939[/img]
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[8675-30-9]

SOLVED!!!! My apologies for the delay on this. This indeed was pinging. I had an aftermarket distributer installed in the engine there when this sound was made. I since tried another aftermarket new dizzy, with the same results. That is 2 distributors that gave me this problem. I assume it was because of a wrong curve on the distributors that differs from that of the dizzy's required for the fuel injected 1800??

I put the old distributor in there and WHAM it ran perfect through the gears. Problem is, that the timing jumps all over the place at idle and i can't get it perfect like i would like to!! SO. I am aware these dizzy are no longer available in any form so I am told. Anyone have any ideas on where to go from here for a new dizzy that can accommodate the FI curve requirements?? Please advise. You responses are appreciated.

I would like to thank you all for your attention and contribution to this thread thus far, so appreciative for this community!!
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1975 Westfalia, 1800 Fuel Injection, 0-60 in 3 tries!! Love the stylin' factor.

[KTPhil]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9425786
https://123ignitionusa.com/123ignitions/volkswagon/

Pricey ($$$), but well-made and either selectable or programmable curves. Available with simulated vacuum advance portion, too.

[SGKent]

Bill at SparkWerks rebuilds them. That said, if the idle speed is close to 1000 RPM that will cause timing drifting, so will a timing light that is going out, or if the inductive pickup is directional, facing in the wrong direction.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[aeromech]

What is the part number on the side of your stock distributor?

205AB?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2179422

Even though this ad is old, looking at it might help you. This is from Bill Fowler
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[8675-30-9]

Thanks everyone. Bus is in storage now until April, so project on hold until the new year! Thanks to everyone who has helped out. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in 2023. I will reach out then for sure. Take care.
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1975 Westfalia, 1800 Fuel Injection, 0-60 in 3 tries!! Love the stylin' factor.

[skills@eurocarsplus]