Best choice nowadays for rear wagon shocks?

[Pepperbilly]

In previous threads the KYB KG 5410 has always come up for the wagon. Is this still the case?

The rear shocks are still the originals. I am also trying to rectify (or improve a bit), my nose high attitude by replacing them. The thing about this I don't understand is how by just replacing the shocks will that improve my height attitude? I have read this in previous posts. I thought shocks were for ride and control only and not lift? Ray Greenwood has talked about this quite a bit in the past.

Bill

[raygreenwood]

All of our cars have a little bit of spring sag even when new. Thats just the weight of the car.

But the wagon....came from the factory with gas shocks. It lifts just a little with these and they help just as much on the sedans.

The gist is that as the car gets a little older, you get a bit more spring sag. Not much but it does not take much. As the rear dips lower...the front lifts higher.

Because the nose is artificially high, just lowering the nose pivots the chassis...around the rear axle...lifting the rear bumper...even when the actual rear chassis does not lift any higher at all.

By getting about 20mm higher lift in the rear with new gas shocks, you get a "straightening effect". The the lower edge chassis gets more parallel to the ground.

In short it does not make the front end lower....it makes the difference from front to rear LOOK less significant.

The KYB KG-5410...is the EXACT shock in every way to the KYB KG-5531 (which was the one made for 411/412)........except for the lower bushing.

On the KG-5531, the lower bushing had a long tube that went through the bushing that the bolt went through. This keeps the shock centered side to side.

The KG-5410 has a normal bushing with just a short spacer inside of the rubber eye. The fix is easy. Either take a short length of bushing tube and cut two pieces...one for each side....or put a stack of washer on each side of the bushing. Either work perfectly.

Otherwise the two shocks have the exact same dimensions and the exact same pressure and valving.

The only other issue is that a couple of people have bought KYB 5410's from vendors that have had them on the shelf for a while and they had leakage issues. This may start to be an issue because of the range of vehicle years they fit.

Ford Econoline 100-front shock : 1975 to 1983

Ford Econoline 150- front shock: 1975 to 1991

Try your best to get a set from a busy FLAPS that has a lot of drywall workers and yard crews with "work sleds" buying parts ...to always get fresh build shocks.

Also one thing I have not tried. I have not tried any of the same shocks for the same application....in an oil shock.

They are kind of hard to find. At Rockauto, the only ones I can find that are listed as oil in say a 1980 E-100 with a V-6.....are Gabriel ultra truck G63500 which also show that they are a little fatter and have no upper shield/cover.

The Sachs 030264 part they list is also oil but also no upper shield.

Same parts list for E-150.

I also have not tried the KYB excel-G 344069 which is listed as original equipment ride level with oil/gas assist.

The KYB gas-adjusts...high pressure gas.... actually drive the most like the stock gas shocks that came from the factory.

Both the oil and gas shocks on the 411 and 412 are some of the stiffest I have seen. Ray

[maya_metallic]

Hi Bill,

new shocks may help but to get it significant higher you'l need harder springs.

I changed the original small heater-boxes to some from the T2 Bay and theyr put much more waight to the back.Even after installing a trailer hitch it was realy bad.

I now just replaced the original springs to new manufactured ones and Bilstein B6 Sport shocks and realized about 4,5 cm hight.

The springs are made from a german company specialy for the type 4 Variant.For an individual manufacturing of a pair it was about 300$ , thats in germany a fair offer.
some pictures ..

Federn Rüter GmbH
Bornstr. 290
D-44145 Dortmund /germany

Don´t know if they ship to the states ?

The shocks are Bilstein B6 24-006309

Greets Michael

[Pepperbilly]

[maya_metallic]

Wie gehts Michael,

That is very good information for the manufactured rear springs! I will keep that in mind if I ever have to replace them. With more weight in the back, especially with a trailer hitch and towing, I can understand why you would want to do this. In my case, I have no trailer hitch and I do not tow anything.

I did replace my rear shocks with the KYB KG 5410. I am happy with the ride. It did bring the rear up a little bit to level the car. I also carry about 100 pounds in the front trunk and the level is just fine. I am happy. The car feels very stock normal on the road.

I did notice in the photo of the rear of your 412, the rear bumper seems too low. There is much space between the top of the bumper and the tail light. Is this perhaps because of the trailer hitch?

Thanks again for the info on the shocks and springs. Much appreciated in the type 4 community!

Bill

Hi Bill

your` right, the bumper is lower, as like in the same place the 411 bumper is. Thats because the trailer-hitch from "peka" was not changed for the 412-facelift.
The VW T2 baywindow Bus has the same, depends if it has a Westfalia or Peka trailer hitch.
But i´m fine with it, because of that effect I can use the bumper-guards properly without hiding the rear-lights.

Kind regards, Michael

[raygreenwood]

That's interesting!

So lowering the bumper...was that a dealer modification....Like drilling new holes lower or was there an adapter bracket involved?

Nice car!.

It would be nice to know the total compressed and extended length of those Bilstein shocks. Aside from valving which is most important.....the total stroke length is critical for 411,/412. If you are successfully and happily driving on them, it must be close enough.

Ray

[Pepperbilly]

That is a very beautiful wagon! Must be proud for sure.

I do remember when I was fitting my bumper I saw two different levels of holes in the chassis. It appears when the 412 body changes were made, the factory just left the 411 holes there and added higher mount holes for the 412. Maybe this was just wagon specific, because the wagon only got the thinner taillights.

Bill

[raygreenwood]