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Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:06 pm    Post subject: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

Recently I picked up a 1981 Vanagon! I've had an interest in these for a while, and my girlfriend is also rather interested in them so it works out.
I like the newer style of the T3/T25 as they are slightly larger and I am rather familiar with 80’s wiring coming from the VW Mk1 golf/rabbit world. When this popped up, the decision was pretty quickly made to make a road trip over Memorial Day.

First some background on the van:
I am the 3rd owner. The first owner purchased it new and owned it until 2014 in California. It was then purchased by the second owner at ~130,000 miles. He did all kinds of work to the van (see list below) and took it on a month long road trip around the western United States back in 2014.
Road trip pictures from 2014 below. This thing looked great on the trip!!
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After the road trip the previous owner decided to do a diesel swap to get some more power and also improve the fuel economy. The swap was never finished. 7 years, some kids, and a few moves later he decided that it was best to sell the van and let someone else enjoy it.

I saw the ad once and almost jumped on it but ended up not messaging the seller. When it popped up a second time I sent him a message and made an offer shortly thereafter. Two weeks later we drove 2200 miles to go pick it up!
A few pictures from the trip:
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And the van is home:
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Upgrades/cool features on the van:
-new 0 mile TDI engine. It’s an AVM which is the industry engine code, but the same as the ALH 1.9L turbo diesel found in 1999-2003 VW golf/jetta
-rebuilt and regeared DK 091 transmission by AA transaxle
-engine is already mounted with proper bellhousing for 15 degrees
-engine deck lid riser has been sourced
-all seats have been recovered
-relatively new canvas top in great shape
-100W solar panel mounted
-GoWesty lift springs and Bilstein shocks
-BRM wheels and larger 205/65R15 tires
-Roof rack with toolbox
-South African grill
-Fiamma 45S awning
-Tinted windows
-wiring harness already built for the tdi
-almost 100% rust free!


Plans for the van:
-Peloquin differentia
-upgraded 28 spline input shaft for the transmission
-0.70 4th for the TDI
-dual mass flywheel to try to keep the transmission protected from vibrations, etc
-pull interior and refinish the cabinets
-install a cooling system into an aircooled van. Trying to not cut an extra hole in the front…we shall see
-install AC. looking at the smallcar unit since that would also add the heater core
-fridge upgrade to one with a freezer section
-flexible solar panel and a nice beefy battery to keep a fridge running
-descent sized inverter
-GPS speedometer
-clean, repaint, and coat the underside
-fix the tiny amount of rust that it has
-new carpet
-new door panels
-refurbish the propane tank
-diesel heater
-fuel tank and fuel system rebuild/upgrade

It is a long (and somewhat pricey) list of things which I would like to do. The priority of work is to get the underside cleaned and painted, and then to get it driving. After that there is no real rush. I just want to be able to move and drive it. I also need to add an extension to the barn so that I can park it underneath some shade. So expect to see some slight construction action in this thread as well.

Finally, I’ve been trying to document the build in video format as well and will be editing together the different sections/phases of the build.
Here is the introductory video!

Link

Some build stuff is also getting put on the instagram: OlisGarage_

I’m happy to hear your thoughts and suggestions on all fronts. I’ve spent countless hours already reading about the tdi and sudden death that it might cause to my transmission. However, I am not too concerned as multiple people have been responsibly driving these with a tdi for a many miles..so fingers are crossed.

That’s all folks, thanks for stopping by!
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1984 VW Rabbit Convertible (daily)
2003 VW Jetta Wagon TDI (recovering from a hit and run)
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Kdj
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

Looks like a nice score. Look forward to seeing it on the road.
There are a couple more of us rolling around town. Just got back from VW-derby in Louisville
There where only two other vanagons.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

You can't use the TDI Vanagon input shaft and dual-mass flywheel with an adapter plate. There isn't a 15° install option that allows the use of the DMF.
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
You can't use the TDI Vanagon input shaft and dual-mass flywheel with an adapter plate. There isn't a 15° install option that allows the use of the DMF.


Hmm. I am actually not running an adaptor plate. I am using a VW bell housing. To be honest, I am not exactly sure which bellhousing it is. Part number is 091301107D. It has a piece welded on for the slave cylinder.

The transmission is currently getting some work done on it, so I can't see if the DMF will fit.

I did just measure the already installed clutch and the new DMF clutch. They have very similar measurements. The DMF clutch is 5mm wider. I have read that the DMF works, one just needs to grind a tiny bit away from the bellhousing. Again, I am not running an adaptor plate.

If you have more information with regards to my bellhousing, I am all ears. Photos are below.

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[/img]
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1984 VW Rabbit Convertible (daily)
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

Kdj wrote:
Looks like a nice score. Look forward to seeing it on the road.
There are a couple more of us rolling around town. Just got back from VW-derby in Louisville
There where only two other vanagons.


Oh sweet! Good to hear from a fellow Vanagon owner.
I don't think I've ever been to that show; I will have to add it to the calendar for next year then.

There is the VW, Audi, Porsche reunion 25 Sep in Cincinnati and CCVW volktoberfest coming up 9 October on the W side of Indy. I'll be to both with my rabbit convertible.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

That must be the Mexican I4 bell housing. If that is the case, then I believe the TDI Vanagon input shaft will not be the correct length. As far as I know, there is not any input shaft available that will fit that bell housing length AND the TDI dual mass flywheel/clutch.
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

I wanted to fix the door first. It was missing the top slider and made terrible noises.

Video for those who enjoy those:

Link



Door was removed which revealed some rust starting. All taped off:
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Area sandblasted:
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Primer and seam sealer:
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Painted!! Not a perfect match, but good enough for an area that will be covered up.
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We also removed some of the sound deadening which is in an area that will be covered by the engine lid riser. I wanted the riser to make direct contact to the metal and not sit on top of sound deadening. Mulitple reasons - the main one is so that the riser can be secured well and sealed off. I used some dry ice for this. Worked fairly well.
Before:
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During:
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After:
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Interior also needed removing so that everything could be cleaned.

Dirty..and they need some love:
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After!
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The engine and transmission were also removed.
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Transmission was shipped off to AA Transaxle for the peloquin, a 0.7 4th, and 28 spline TDI input shaft. The usual upgrades of slider hub and different third gear (1.0Cool are complete.

Ready to be packed:
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All packed up:
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I used a ton of bubble wrap and double walled boxes. Then I glued a second box inside the double walled box. Everything was taped up with 4 rolls of packing tape.

Video on the removal stuff is coming soon. Lots of time lapses which make it all look super simple...
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
That must be the Mexican I4 bell housing. If that is the case, then I believe the TDI Vanagon input shaft will not be the correct length. As far as I know, there is not any input shaft available that will fit that bell housing length AND the TDI dual mass flywheel/clutch.


well...... I will cross my fingers then I guess.

The input shaft came from mybusparts.de in Germany. If it doesn't work, I will just run their clutch kit. It's SMF but apparently works well with TDI engines. I want to call them and get more information. We shall see what ends up happening.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

The Mexican I4 bell housing is longer than any of the Vanagon bell housings and the difference in length requires a longer input shaft. As far as I know, no one makes an input shaft that is the correct length for the Mexican I4 bell housing AND has the correct splines to mate to ANY of the TDI clutch discs regardless of whether the dual mass flywheel or single mass flywheel is used. The TDI Vanagon input shaft that is available at Busshop, Brickwerks, etc... is the correct length for using the diesel Vanagon bell housing which is shorter than the Mexican I4 bell housing. If you plan on using the Mexican I$ bell housing, you are relegated to using the flywheel/clutch assembly that matches it or having a custom input shaft made that is the correct length and matches the splines of the TDI clutch discs.

IMO, this is the most significant downside to any 15° install that is used with a manual transaxle and the main reason that the TDI engines have a reputation for destroying transaxles.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

Nice work on the sliding door track. You may want to replace the door bearings as well. GoWesty and Vanavation (the latter run by Samba member SyncroHead) sell them.

BTW, is that Moon Man you're sipping? Good stuff!
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
The Mexican I4 bell housing is longer than any of the Vanagon bell housings and the difference in length requires a longer input shaft. As far as I know, no one makes an input shaft that is the correct length for the Mexican I4 bell housing AND has the correct splines to mate to ANY of the TDI clutch discs regardless of whether the dual mass flywheel or single mass flywheel is used. The TDI Vanagon input shaft that is available at Busshop, Brickwerks, etc... is the correct length for using the diesel Vanagon bell housing which is shorter than the Mexican I4 bell housing. If you plan on using the Mexican I$ bell housing, you are relegated to using the flywheel/clutch assembly that matches it or having a custom input shaft made that is the correct length and matches the splines of the TDI clutch discs.

IMO, this is the most significant downside to any 15° install that is used with a manual transaxle and the main reason that the TDI engines have a reputation for destroying transaxles.


I just reviewed some more photos, and you definitely are right about that Sir. See below...Definitely not going to work.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


At this point I am not exactly sure how to move forwards.. I am thinking about running a gasser bell housing and finding an adaptor plate. I really would like to stick with the 15 degrees as well as with a DMF clutch. Any thoughts and experience about going this route?

It seems as going the custom input shaft route isn't that straight forward since I can't seem to find CAD files for one and the machine shops seem to like CAD files to keep the costs reasonable.


The learning curve is currently getting a bit steeper by the day it seems Confused Confused But it will run one day!!!
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

kevinm wrote:
Nice work on the sliding door track. You may want to replace the door bearings as well. GoWesty and Vanavation (the latter run by Samba member SyncroHead) sell them.

BTW, is that Moon Man you're sipping? Good stuff!


Boom thanks for that info on the sliding rollers. Gowesty only had the full kit for 1984 and newer. This looks like it should work for my door as well. I will have to look a bit more closely. If not, I already saved a kit from mybusparts.de which has the full kit for the early sliding doors, to include the rear guide!

Not Moon Man, but Spotted Cow from WI. Went to WI recently and it is (almost) obligatory to bring some back as it is only sold there.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

OlisGarage wrote:
At this point I am not exactly sure how to move forwards.. I am thinking about running a gasser bell housing and finding an adaptor plate. I really would like to stick with the 15 degrees as well as with a DMF clutch. Any thoughts and experience about going this route?


As I mentioned, there is not any option using currently available parts that allows the DMF with a 15° install. The DMF will not fit with an adapter plate and it will not fit in a gasser bell housing. If you want to use the DMF at 15° you will need either a custom bell housing or a custom input shaft.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

I would add sourcing and installing a timing belt cover to your list. It'd be a shame to suck some road debris or a stone into the timing belt path.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
OlisGarage wrote:
At this point I am not exactly sure how to move forwards.. I am thinking about running a gasser bell housing and finding an adaptor plate. I really would like to stick with the 15 degrees as well as with a DMF clutch. Any thoughts and experience about going this route?


As I mentioned, there is not any option using currently available parts that allows the DMF with a 15° install. The DMF will not fit with an adapter plate and it will not fit in a gasser bell housing. If you want to use the DMF at 15° you will need either a custom bell housing or a custom input shaft.


Ah ha, that answers that question as well. Thank you!

Does anyone have any lead on where one could potentially get a custom input shaft made? Waldo, do you have any experience on something like that? A quick stalking showed your van is automatic. I really appreciate the information though. This is what keeps these projects entertaining...at least it keeps them never dull! haha
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

HBB wrote:
I would add sourcing and installing a timing belt cover to your list. It'd be a shame to suck some road debris or a stone into the timing belt path.


Absolutely is on the list. Actually, that is one thing which I can check off of the list now! I have a cover.

Will be posting pictures soon with some more updates.
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OlisGarage
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

Progress is being continued to be made!

Next up was removing the solar pannel. The pannel was mounted by just drilling holes through the fiberglass top. While this works in the desert of CA or TX, this does not work well for Indiana as we get quite a bit of rain here.

Leaking holes..gross.
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Removal..
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Sanded and cleaned the holes. This was the largest where the wire passed through. Note the green on the bottom of the hole. I am using painters tape to serve as my flat bottom surface.
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All epoxied up! I used a fiberglass resin for this.
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How it looks from the inside. A bit of a skylight. I will eventually glue a flexible pannel over this area.
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Boxes keep showing up....
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Next up was cleaning and painting everything underneath. This was an absolute bear.
First, time to clean everything with a brush and soapy water.

Time to remove some sound deadening. Fingers crossed that there isn't rust hiding....! And there wasnt!!
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So dirty...so much dirt.
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Lots of time cleaning later..
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I also cleaned INSIDE the rear frame. 3" chimney brush from amazon
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During..
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After!
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The inside of the frame underneath the van was also cleaned. Before:
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During:
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After:
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Now I was at a cross roads.. To remove the wax or not to remove the original wax.
I wanted to preserve this van as best as possible. Painting over wax isn't sound practice, and the paint was starting to crack where the wax was cracking. So, we started scraping...and scraping....and scraping.

Heat is the only way to get the wax to soften. Solvents weren’t doing much work.
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But I decided to shift focus after a while. This just wasn’t going to remove the wax or remove the paint which was coming off very easily with just a bit of solvent.

I was able to come up with two options: CO2 blast or sand blast. Unfortunately, I’m not made of money, so I decided to sandblast.

I rented a massive diesel air compressor. This was the only one they had for the weekend. To say the least, the sandblaster did not overwork it!!
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It was an extremely dusty process. It really sucked, but the results were well worth it.
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I ended up removing all of the suspension and steering components. The van is almost just a shell at this point..!!

I spent a pretty penny on some epoxy primer. This stuff should do the job well for the next half century or so!!
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And for those who want to watch a video on the process:

Link



That’s all for now folks! More to follow!
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2003 VW Jetta Wagon TDI (recovering from a hit and run)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

OlisGarage wrote:
?Waldo? wrote:
The Mexican I4 bell housing is longer than any of the Vanagon bell housings and the difference in length requires a longer input shaft. As far as I know, no one makes an input shaft that is the correct length for the Mexican I4 bell housing AND has the correct splines to mate to ANY of the TDI clutch discs regardless of whether the dual mass flywheel or single mass flywheel is used. The TDI Vanagon input shaft that is available at Busshop, Brickwerks, etc... is the correct length for using the diesel Vanagon bell housing which is shorter than the Mexican I4 bell housing. If you plan on using the Mexican I$ bell housing, you are relegated to using the flywheel/clutch assembly that matches it or having a custom input shaft made that is the correct length and matches the splines of the TDI clutch discs.

IMO, this is the most significant downside to any 15° install that is used with a manual transaxle and the main reason that the TDI engines have a reputation for destroying transaxles.


I just reviewed some more photos, and you definitely are right about that Sir. See below...Definitely not going to work.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


At this point I am not exactly sure how to move forwards.. I am thinking about running a gasser bell housing and finding an adaptor plate. I really would like to stick with the 15 degrees as well as with a DMF clutch. Any thoughts and experience about going this route?

It seems as going the custom input shaft route isn't that straight forward since I can't seem to find CAD files for one and the machine shops seem to like CAD files to keep the costs reasonable.


The learning curve is currently getting a bit steeper by the day it seems Confused Confused But it will run one day!!!


Sorry, Waldo tried to tell you this at least 4x. We had a TDI van in the shop installed with with the same Mexican bellhousing. It had eaten the input shaft at the pilot bearing. I was lucky to find a new one at German Transaxle. This was the stock VW splines. Not for a DMF setup. In fact, even the flywheel was unique to the Mexican bell housing.

Many of us are running our TDI's with the stock diesel bellhousing at 50 degree layover. All around its a better setup, you can use the DMF, all of the parts are off the shelf. Even with an adapter plate, you are stuck using unique parts. What happens if the company goes out of business? Eurospec comes to mind.

The van looks nice, but you need to solve the problem. As far as a custom input shaft. The easiest thing would be to have someone cut it in half, sleeve it and lengthen. It would be important that it is straight when completed and welded by someone competent. Better would be to spline the cut ends and have your sleeve splined as well then welded.

Designing one from scratch, would probably require that you order and sell 10 of them and I don't see the market at this point.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

You can make a custom input shaft fairly easily as we discussed on IG.

Just buy the Tdi shaft, get any other Vanagon or even aircooled shaft (Weddle makes a HD version). Cut both at the length you want, have them machined to join together and welded and treated.

I have had it done in France for the Renault 5 HA transmission conversion to a VW bus. I was gonna do it on a Vanagon but realized the transmission is too weak for the Vanagon.
A friend did a custom pinion shaft like that too, from a 4 speed to a 5 speed, you just gotta find the competent shop to do it.
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
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valvecovergasket
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Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1492
Location: pnw
valvecovergasket is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Oli's 1981 Vanagon Westfalia TDI Build Reply with quote

seems like something maybe a driveline shop could do for you - being that theyre used to welding/modifying things with splines that spin at high rpm.
maybe worth some phone calls.
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gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread
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