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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:23 am Post subject: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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hey guys. so i just had a new engine put in my 79 bus. it’s a type 4 fuel injected engine from GEX (i know). a very credible shop here in south florida put it in for me. it’s ran great for a week and now all the sudden i started it one morning and i’m getting a very loud valve knock. took the valve cover off of cylinder 1 and 2 and properly pointed the distributor to the correct cylinder and everything was fine. nothing loose. i did notice that my oil light usually goes off as i’m cranking, and did not shut off until about 2 seconds after it was started. and it is very hot outside here in south florida, but i drove it about 15 minutes the other day and the engine was very hot. what do we think it could be? maybe a bad oil pump or something internal loose in my lifters? any help is appreciated
video of startup:
https://youtube.com/shorts/pBOXSZq8j2M?feature=share
Last edited by m.sebastiano on Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:29 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:36 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| m.sebastiano wrote: |
| engine from GEX (i know). |
Could be anything from collapsed lifter, loose valve guide, bad rod bearings, clogged oil passage... you name it.
There is no easy answer.
Take it back to your "a very credible shop" and ask them to diagnose it. Be prepared to spend $$$$.
BTW, if you knew about GEX, then you have no one to blame but yourself.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:47 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| m.sebastiano wrote: |
| engine from GEX (i know). |
Could be anything from collapsed lifter, loose valve guide, bad rod bearings, clogged oil passage... you name it.
There is no easy answer.
Take it back to your "a very credible shop" and ask them to diagnose it. Be prepared to spend $$$$.
BTW, if you knew about GEX, then you have no one to blame but yourself. |
i didn’t know about them till after i bought it. and the shop is j b bugs in jensen beach. been in business about 40 years. engine is also under warranty so i’m not too worried about the money. just wanted some input before i have to call the shop |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:52 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| m.sebastiano wrote: |
| engine is also under warranty so i’m not too worried |
Good luck with that. GEX is notorious for not honoring their warranty.
Did the shop recommend GEX? If so you might have a chance. If you brought it to them, then it's on you to deal with GEX.
Sorry this happened, but the internet is full of GEX horror stories.
Here's their feedback topic, it has 18 years of bad feedback: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92079
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:57 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| m.sebastiano wrote: |
| engine is also under warranty so i’m not too worried |
Good luck with that. GEX is notorious for not honoring their warranty.
Did the shop recommend GEX? If so you might have a chance. If you brought it to them, then it's on you to deal with GEX.
Sorry this happened, but the internet is full of GEX horror stories.
Here's their feedback topic, it has 18 years of bad feedback: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92079 |
i know i wish i read up a little more that’s on me. i’m gonna have to deal with them but at this point i just want my bus running i don’t even care. it is what it is. been daily driving mine for over 2 years. i’d post a video of the knock but i’m not sure how |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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Upload to YouTube and post the link.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:29 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Upload to YouTube and post the link. |
thank you video is now linked above |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:33 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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ha
dude, you're fucked. if this shop was truly credible no way would that have even mentioned GEX unless it was to advise against buying any of their products.
sorry you got hosed.
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:34 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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Sounds like valve lash. Maybe a simple valve adjustment or a collapsed lifter.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:35 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
ha
dude, you're fucked. if this shop was truly credible no way would that have even mentioned GEX unless it was to advise against buying any of their products.
sorry you got hosed. |
he did not mention gex to me hahah. he had nothing but bad things to say about them when i told him the engine i bought. i bought the engine in my own and then called the shop. so that’s on me |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:38 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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x2 on hydraulic valve clatter. Maybe some small exhaust leaks too. Likely oil pump hitting the camshaft as well… Get that warranty in writing, and prepare to catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I would start with an oil and change, something thin and dinosaur based like 10w30. Make sure you use the larger drain bolt, not the strainer bolt in the center circular plate, unless you have a torque wrench that goes down to 9 ft*lbs.
Good luck,
Robbie
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:38 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Sounds like valve lash. Maybe a simple valve adjustment or a collapsed lifter. |
could be the lifter. valves looked fine |
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:40 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| airschooled wrote: |
x2 on hydraulic valve clatter. Maybe some small exhaust leaks too. Likely oil pump hitting the camshaft as well… Get that warranty in writing, and prepare to catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I would start with an oil and change, something thin and dinosaur based like 10w30. Make sure you use the larger drain bolt, not the strainer bolt in the center circular plate, unless you have a torque wrench that goes down to 9 ft*lbs.
Good luck,
Robbie |
thanks man. i’ll look into it. drove great the night before, no noise at all, then the next morning it’s knocking right at startup. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:58 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| m.sebastiano wrote: |
thanks man. i’ll look into it. drove great the night before, no noise at all, then the next morning it’s knocking right at startup. |
Classic hydraulic valve knock. Don't get too discouraged yet!
Hydraulic lifters, while cool that they self-adjust, have a limited self-adjustment range and MUST have clean oil. Always start with the easiest things first, like an oil change.
I would personally warm the engine up with a gentle drive before the oil change, then drive it gently for 20-30 minutes. If the sound doesn't go away, a cold engine valve adjustment would be in order. After that, start stressing.
Robbie
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:07 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| airschooled wrote: |
| m.sebastiano wrote: |
thanks man. i’ll look into it. drove great the night before, no noise at all, then the next morning it’s knocking right at startup. |
Classic hydraulic valve knock. Don't get too discouraged yet!
Hydraulic lifters, while cool that they self-adjust, have a limited self-adjustment range and MUST have clean oil. Always start with the easiest things first, like an oil change.
I would personally warm the engine up with a gentle drive before the oil change, then drive it gently for 20-30 minutes. If the sound doesn't go away, a cold engine valve adjustment would be in order. After that, start stressing.
Robbie |
thank you for your input robbie. so i just got it back from the shop from the engine install a little over a week ago, drove great for a week. so it has brand new oil in it. it seems like i’m running hot though, it’s very hot out here but i drove it for 20 minutes the other day and the motor was pretty hot |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:17 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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New engine builds finish the machine work for you as you drive them and shed fine metal particles into the oil. I would expect dirtier-than-normal oil for the first 250 miles, more if the engine wasn't assembled in a clean room. I think it's worth $40 and an hour of time to hedge your bets.
Other things that piss off hydraulic lifters include short drives without FULLY warming the engine up, and super thick oil on a new engine. If the engine doesn't have a working thermostat, it will take at least half an hour of driving to warm it up.
Because of all the extra friction, new engines also run hot during break-in. As the rings seat in from hard driving (don't baby a new build!) your compression and efficiency will go up a little too.
Robbie
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:24 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| airschooled wrote: |
New engine builds finish the machine work for you as you drive them and shed fine metal particles into the oil. I would expect dirtier-than-normal oil for the first 250 miles, more if the engine wasn't assembled in a clean room. I think it's worth $40 and an hour of time to hedge your bets.
Other things that piss off hydraulic lifters include short drives without FULLY warming the engine up, and super thick oil on a new engine. If the engine doesn't have a working thermostat, it will take at least half an hour of driving to warm it up.
Because of all the extra friction, new engines also run hot during break-in. As the rings seat in from hard driving (don't baby a new build!) your compression and efficiency will go up a little too.
Robbie |
wow thanks for all this info man!! much appreciated. so you think i should do an oil change and go from there? i believe he put in 20-50 |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:29 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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The 500 page oil thread on TheSamba essentially boils down to "clean oil is better" and "expensive oil doesn't matter if the builder used crap parts."
20w50 is fine once the engine is broken in, but I've had better success with something thinner during break-in, especially with hydraulic lifters.
Oil change, long gentle warm-up drive, and reassess.
As the owner of this new basket case, you also get to do a few other things that shops/builders just can't reasonable do. Check the 13mm intake and exhaust manifold nuts for snugness when the engine is cold next. There are four on each side of the intake manifold, usually accessable with a 3" ratchet extension. There are also four on each head, holding on the exhaust manifolds. Accessable with a 6" extension after removing the lower engine tins, (four screws each.)
Good luck.
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:38 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| airschooled wrote: |
The 500 page oil thread on TheSamba essentially boils down to "clean oil is better" and "expensive oil doesn't matter if the builder used crap parts."
20w50 is fine once the engine is broken in, but I've had better success with something thinner during break-in, especially with hydraulic lifters.
Oil change, long gentle warm-up drive, and reassess.
As the owner of this new basket case, you also get to do a few other things that shops/builders just can't reasonable do. Check the 13mm intake and exhaust manifold nuts for snugness when the engine is cold next. There are four on each side of the intake manifold, usually accessable with a 3" ratchet extension. There are also four on each head, holding on the exhaust manifolds. Accessable with a 6" extension after removing the lower engine tins, (four screws each.)
Good luck. |
i’ll give that a shot. thank you man |
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m.sebastiano
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2022
Posts: 14
Location: jupiter florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: Re: valve knocking. brand new engine |
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| airschooled wrote: |
The 500 page oil thread on TheSamba essentially boils down to "clean oil is better" and "expensive oil doesn't matter if the builder used crap parts."
20w50 is fine once the engine is broken in, but I've had better success with something thinner during break-in, especially with hydraulic lifters.
Oil change, long gentle warm-up drive, and reassess.
As the owner of this new basket case, you also get to do a few other things that shops/builders just can't reasonable do. Check the 13mm intake and exhaust manifold nuts for snugness when the engine is cold next. There are four on each side of the intake manifold, usually accessable with a 3" ratchet extension. There are also four on each head, holding on the exhaust manifolds. Accessable with a 6" extension after removing the lower engine tins, (four screws each.)
Good luck. |
also you think i should start it up and drive it with the knock? and if it doesn’t go away then go from there? i’m afraid to put load on it haha |
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