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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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the fellows UK heater for subaru bus swaps is less than $ 200 USD before shipping ... seems kinda simple and perfect once you see it
it's a heater core that just blows into the last little bit of what's left of the heater tube going into the front cab when you remove the rest of the unnecessary plumbing
here is a pic i have of it ...
i believe it comes with the multi speed fan switch at that price
i think the hot mod would be to add a heater valve to it and connect it to the stock heater cable (normally it's just running coolant thru it all the time...which may seem abnormal but since it's underneath the vehicle, not such a big deal) .. then you could regulate both fan speed and temperature (and it would also honor the OG design of the dash better)
speaking of fellows....all their stuff is really great...e.g. radiator and exhaust are much better than busaru, kennedy, etc |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:58 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
my opinion is just that, an opinion.
I have been working with CAN, MOST, LIN, and now FLEXRAY since '99. All i can say is your average vw owner can't find TDC without a 7 page thread. why make the swap more complicated than need be? If someone had a CAN network go down in a swap their brain would leak out of their ears.
aftermarket ECU's are fine IF you enjoy tuning, and that brings a whole new dimension to the swap...hours of dyno time to make it right for example. |
Agreed 100%, but...
the JDM EZ30D with the stock ECU is still a perfect swap for DIY Bus/Vanagon people.
(there are facebook groups chock full of them.... )
And....I know the usual suspects in the "U.S. VW Subie swap scene" have yet to start doing it.... but putting a JDM CAN motor with a factory ECU in a Bus is common practice in some places...such as subarugears kangaroo island...and could very easily become the norm here (with everything except CA smog buses, but even then you just need to figure out how to make a USDM ECU happy and achieve "readiness" for CARB ref approval...and EGR/PCV/CAT/etc)
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| you claim a bunch of subaru diesel swaps. I haven't seen many and one reason is the sheer obscurity of the platform in the US. |
sorry maybe i was being confusing - im saying it would be really brave and foolish/crazy to pick the EE20 :) good luck finding ANYTHING for that thing here in the states.... but that said, i think a Subaru Boxer Turbo diesel would make such a freaking awesome/ cool Bus engine....
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| the SVX and any other 6 is pretty heavy and a pig on fuel. you can literally build a 2.5 na to meet or exceed the hp/torque of a 6 with some head work, crank and cams IF you wanted to go that deep |
I'm not a big fan of the EG33 (maybe if you wanted a Turbo 6, since it's put together like the EJ), but the EZ30R is arguably the best engine Subaru has ever made... and the EZ30D is, again, a practical swap for a Bus and a much better fit, performance-wise, than a stock EJ25. A stock EJ25 in a Bus freaking glorious, don't get me wrong. I love mine. But all that work and air-cooled abomination to produce a truck-like vehicle with a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder isn't the cat's pajamas. particularly if some DIY swapper is buying some old shitbox and spending forever dismantling it, to swap in the un-rebuilt engine, and could have just bought a JDM EZ30D that's ready to install with 30K miles on it, for around the same price (or perhaps less), instead.....
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| I have been down the JDM road in a previous life. My brother is a Hondog fanboy who doesn't know which end of the screwdriver to hold and trying to sort the mess of a CRX he had about had us to the point of not being on speaking terms. I just don't see any value in JDM shit, and most of it is a myth anyway (the low miles part for example) |
all i can say is....... that's totally opposite to my personal experience building 3 Honda on that same chassis as your brother ... for example swapping a Civic with harness redone from TBI SOHC to MPFI + VTEC B-series DOHC and saturated vs peak/hold injectors... and rewiring my CRX HF to OBD-1 (using a donor ECU that I converted from auto to manual and put a custom EPROM in). JDM vs USDM made no difference at all on those projects. The mileage is as accurate as your supplier is trustworthy...and one should always ask for a compression test to be supplied before hand.. in the old days you could buy the swap with a front clip including the cluster with an odo in it. The issue is the "JDM" suppliers who are buying Japan-spec shit from other markets than Japan (and claiming they are JDM). That said, it's still a junkyard engine, so there's always some risk. That's why I would never put one in without doing as much as I can to freshen it up while it's out of the car on an engine stand.
But...that said does this look like the inside of a high mileage engine? :) i can assure you it was even more unbelievably pristine aluminum silver colored in real life than it even looks on this ancient digital camera pic with yellow 3000K CFL lighting
i took it apart to upgrade the valve train.... i didn't clean the head... the inside of the engine was like a new car
here some baffles were getting welded in so obviously there was some surface prep but i can tell you the clean up was a quick wipe with some brake cleaner and a shop towel.
with the Hondas, swapping made nothing more complicated JDM vs USDM. JDM was basically a free lunch.
the most crazy thing to me was that the engines were so fucking cheap.....
they were so cheap that they should have looked like this
hah. ^^^ for the PRICE, that's what a JDM engine SHOULD look like.
but.... they sure AF don't.
The mileage varies but the low mileage thing is NOT a myth...for example, the EZ30R sitting in my shopmates rack came from a very reputable importer.... and has 18K miles on it. A local place, Outfront Motorsports has been doing Subie shit out here with VW sand toy people forever... they leakdown and compression checked it and go thru tons of engines just like it.
The inside looks just like that B16A above. And that motor cost jack and shit from a "really expensive" JDM importer.
A motor just like it went into a dude's Ghia and made 300HP on a dyno with just an intake, exhaust and full aftermarket ECU tune.....
it was one hell of an exhaust and a great job on the tune...but still, that's 300HP from a stock engine that cost almost nothing.
With Subaru, I will say it's a lot more complicated of a landscape than those old skool Honda swap days, there can be a LOT more confusion because of differences in what was offered between markets being a little more meaningful once you factor in OBD2 + CAN, whereas the OBD0/OBD1 Honda stuff was very easily interchangeable. You have to really do your homework with Subaru stuff, understand what to get and what to not get and have a plan.
All that said, if one's world is focused around the pre-CAN EJ25, the JDM lands are DEFINITELY NOT the place to look.
(if those pics dont load just click on them, they aren't http"S" so the browser might block them) |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4914
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:00 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| metahacker wrote: |
the fellows UK heater for subaru bus swaps is less than $ 200 USD before shipping ... seems kinda simple and perfect once you see it
it's a heater core that just blows into the last little bit of what's left of the heater tube going into the front cab when you remove the rest of the unnecessary plumbing
here is a pic i have of it ...
speaking of fellows....all their stuff is really great...e.g. radiator and exhaust are much better than busaru, kennedy, etc |
The Fellows stuff is nice, but the exchange on the Canadian dollar to pound is 1.59 right now, that sucks.
on the positive side our local radiator shop is a hotrod guy, so I'll get some input from them when I get my EFI tank cleaned
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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girvine
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2017
Posts: 5
Location: IL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| Can you post a link to purchase the heater? |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15141
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:53 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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heater looks like it'd be just great when driving in the rain... 0-o.
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4914
Location: Southern AB
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
| heater looks like it'd be just great when driving in the rain... 0-o. |
underneath the pedal pan? |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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also here is another heater option that i thought was pretty interesting
https://infernoheaters.com/product-category/heater-series/
it's universal, not VW specific .. looks nice and has various sizes available
the two bigger ones are 32K and 45K BTU
SPAL fans .. which i would assume are the IP68 (waterproof) versions, but worth checking ..
i like the idea of having 2 heater cores on multi-speed (or PWM) fan switches with heater valves connected to the stock heater box control cable(s) ... would be pretty cool to be able to vary both the amount of air blowing and temperature ... and possibly use them as fresh air fans with the heater valves shut ... i could see using a rear heater unit on its lowest fan setting for comfort while hanging out in camper interior "house mode" .. although not sure of typical amp draw for extended use .. |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4914
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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What's the deal with the reversed coolant manifold?
is that a vanagon thing? to get it on the back of the motor
it makes more sense on the drivers side, so you can add a fill spout with a belly mount radiator
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1161
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:09 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
What's the deal with the reversed coolant manifold?
is that a vanagon thing? to get it on the back of the motor
it makes more sense on the drivers side, so you can add a fill spout with a belly mount radiator |
It's a Vanagon thing as the coolant pipes run from that side on a WBX engine from what I understand. No real advantage to use it on a Bus as that area is already crowded but I'm sure someone has made it work.
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*******************************
76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4914
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
Next question: who is the preferred harness modification vendor ? not the cheapest, someone who does good work for a fair price.
I've seen Autoventures mentioned before, most of the Subaru swap vendors have the service available, Modern Bay, Busaru, Small car, etc. Although they may be outsourcing them to someone too. |
Well....pulled the donor and harness on the weekend.
I tried Autoventures today for the harness work, they are backed up and aren't taking any new work until they get caught up.
Any recommendations??
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1161
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
| W1K1 wrote: |
Next question: who is the preferred harness modification vendor ? not the cheapest, someone who does good work for a fair price.
I've seen Autoventures mentioned before, most of the Subaru swap vendors have the service available, Modern Bay, Busaru, Small car, etc. Although they may be outsourcing them to someone too. |
Well....pulled the donor and harness on the weekend.
I tried Autoventures today for the harness work, they are backed up and aren't taking any new work until they get caught up.
Any recommendations?? |
I believe that Skills and many of the others use Autoventures but I did the harness myself so I can't really comment on who is better than the others.
_________________
*******************************
76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1856
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| I put maradyne brand heaters in a couple conversions I did. They have a few options of sizes. Mounted under the front plumbed into the original duct. |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4914
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:33 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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Strangly enough I have been following his videos on youtube and e-mailed them before on conversion parts.
I tried their website for the wiring conversion, they ask a bunch of application questions, and you have to submit an order with payment.
Then they send you the return info to get the job done 4-8 weeks after they receive the harness.
I don't think that's legal to charge a customer before providing the service? I know we can't do it here at work.
I'll give them a call to find out if they are billing you at the time or after the work is done.
(edit) I sent an e-mail at lunch, Travis said they bill you up front for the harness work, and will bill the extra if there are any changes when they ship it to you. 
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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You're in good hands with Travis, you're not going to find a more likable and trustable guy
Being able to fill out a form and purchase a harness conversion online is a plus |
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GS
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: Middelburg, Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:01 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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| metahacker wrote: |
also here is another heater option that i thought was pretty interesting
https://infernoheaters.com/product-category/heater-series/
it's universal, not VW specific .. looks nice and has various sizes available
the two bigger ones are 32K and 45K BTU
SPAL fans .. which i would assume are the IP68 (waterproof) versions, but worth checking ..
i like the idea of having 2 heater cores on multi-speed (or PWM) fan switches with heater valves connected to the stock heater box control cable(s) ... would be pretty cool to be able to vary both the amount of air blowing and temperature ... and possibly use them as fresh air fans with the heater valves shut ... i could see using a rear heater unit on its lowest fan setting for comfort while hanging out in camper interior "house mode" .. although not sure of typical amp draw for extended use .. |
I wonder why nobody uses a water to air intercooler inbetween the center heater pipe underneath the bus. The stock fan (used with the type4 engine) can be used.
_________________
1971 Baywindow westy m-plate
1972 Bug |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16849
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:59 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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travis is a fucking hack that stole autoventures interface board. fuck him
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:20 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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a hack? yeah right.
the idea of making a breakout board isn't something new.
the AutoVentures are great people but they didn't invent that concept.
you really think this....
is a rip off of this?
hardly.
did AGT rip them off too?
calling travis a hack is nonsense. he's just getting started but is already prolific and his designs are original - inspired perhaps, but his team's work.
look at his radiator. the most bay window specific design for a radiator implementation so far -
a 100% custom core with the hoses actually routed properly and a proper duct integrated into the design.
the fellows and smallcar ones are ok but both seem to be based on something pre-existing.
the modernbay one is a clean sheet design with a dual core so the inlet and outlet can pass on the same plane, like it should be
not going through a huge hole in the frame rail or having the radiator hoses hanging downward instead of to the rear
much more innovative than the current "leaders" in the space
the other stuff out there is actually what a "hack" is - taking existing parts to hack something together that works.
and.... he posts pictures of it for the community to see and will sell you one if you want.... it isn't a "secret"
the level of sophistication speaks for itself
Last edited by metahacker on Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16849
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:19 am Post subject: Re: subaru swap questions |
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he stole jeffs board and reversed engineered it.
let him post photos. then I will steal his work and sell it for 1/3 what he does because I can.
don't bother sending me any more p/m's. sponge info from your boy. he has all the answers, right?
i wish him well but what he did to jeff was fucked up. don't believe me, ask jeff yourself.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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