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87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia)
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:19 am    Post subject: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Back in 1987 a young teenager (me) got the VW bug.
At the time I was living in the UK and completely obsessed - ever since my Dad told me, they were a little Porsche, designed by the same bloke…

After I bought my first car, a terrible 72 1200 with slipping clutch and terminal rust, I took it to a famous road from the old car test magazines. The hill at Porlock in the South West of England was famous as many of the cars back in the 50s and 60s literally couldn’t make it up the hill, as it was so steep.

My then girlfriend and I made it to the top, in my little white rusty wreck, but hadn’t considered coming back down again…

An exciting white knuckle ride later, back down to the bottom (apparently the car believed in ‘scream if you want to go faster’) saw us at the car park with shattered nerves / nervous laughs and it was then that I fell in love.

Not with the girlfriend - though she was very nice and long suffering, no, I fell in love with this…

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These are two photos I took from back in 87 and have kept with me ever since! Considering I’ve moved continents a couple of times, you can probably see how much in love I was!

I even joined the UK Karmann Ghia owners club, so I would get monthly news letters with pictures of Ghias in! I managed my way through 5 or 6 beetles but never had enough money for the coach built Ghia

Fast forward to 2022 and I now live in Minnesota. Being a long term lurker on here.

I’ve had a number of classics, largely air cooled, but drooling over John Ms latest pictures made me finally take action.

I got approval from the financial and car counting police (wife) and started the search…

So many rusty cars and knowing VWs pretty well and being a Samba lurker, I knew, body was everything.

After going to see, yet another bondo sculpture (again, I’m not it the show car end of the pool) I decided to put an advert in my local Craigslist.

I had a few offers, but nothing that had the right amount of work for my skill level. Then this turned up both on Craigslist and the Samba on the same day…

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It turned up on Friday, but I had a wedding to go to on Saturday…
The boss of all things excused me the first part of the wedding so I could go have a look and then approved over the phone, me going ‘slightly over budget’ like 100%

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There’s lots to do, but it’s solid. It jumps and bucks on takeoff (hopefully due to this oh so straight Bowden cable:

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The gearstick rattles like a kid the night before Christmas, shaking a present with their name on it and has the usual saggy hinges (don’t we all) that adorn things that are 50+ years old.

She’s now hidden away in the garage for a few weeks, while I earn credit back with the wife, but this winter should be fun getting it ready for spring and summer 2023!

The plan is to drive it for a couple of seasons, while I finish up another car and then restore it from the bones up.

Finally I have a good reason to post here!
Kester
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Welcome to the club Kester! Love the story and we all look forward to following your adventures and future resto of your Ghia!

Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Mnmunky wrote:
I’ve had a number of classics, largely air cooled, but drooling over John Ms latest pictures made me finally take action.


Wow Kester, humbled to think my '58 has sparked a dormant love.
Looking forward to a continuation of the story. Very Happy
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Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Thanks Jeff. I’m picking up some great tips from your Cabrio restoration!

John, I sent some pictures years ago to my parents in Ireland, of your ‘58 and about a month ago, I sent them the new ones that were in the same location, saying that I was sending them more pictures of your achingly beautiful car.

They promptly had one of them turned into a jigsaw and that kept the busy for a couple of hours on a wet Irish summers day!

A lowlight would have been amazing, your a very fortunate guy but no-one was buying kidneys… and when I saw my 63 being reversed off the drive and onto the road, it was just jaw dropping! Very Happy

Had to drive over to Wisconsin this weekend, to work on my father-in-laws house, so no Ghia works started yet. Hopefully though I’ve earned some bonus points with the Mrs, so I can at least look at the Bowden cable next weekend!
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Mnmunky wrote:

John, I sent some pictures years ago to my parents in Ireland, of your ‘58 and about a month ago, I sent them the new ones that were in the same location, saying that I was sending them more pictures of your achingly beautiful car.

They promptly had one of them turned into a jigsaw and that kept the busy for a couple of hours on a wet Irish summers day!

A lowlight would have been amazing, your a very fortunate guy but no-one was buying kidneys… and when I saw my 63 being reversed off the drive and onto the road, it was just jaw dropping! Very Happy


Ha! I'm flattered the whole family is enjoying "Betty's Baby"
I expect you knew the Samba Ghia Community thought $9k was too much in 2007. Laughing
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TRS63
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Welcome here, nice 63, keep us updated on the work on it Very Happy

Antoine
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My 62 ragtop daily driver:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728873
My 914 restoration&lightweight project :
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9698432#9698432
Resurrecting a 60 ghia : https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713906
My 52 Standard Zwitter :
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10086685#10086685
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Nice find and I like the color. Looking forward to seeing pictures of the interior. I especially like your straight on low front shot. It shows the interesting shape of the the lower front fenders curving inward. Ghia's can look so different depending on camera angle and location.

Congratulations on making your dream a reality.
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68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Great looking Ghia! Smart move prioritizing a solid body. Share more pics when you have a chance. 61-66 was IMO the best era of Ghias.
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Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD

Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the warm welcome. Very Happy

It’s great to be invited to contribute to a forum I’ve lurked on for the past (probably) 10 years!

I ended up working away this past weekend, trying to get a project underway for the family, to buy back some of those credits with the good lady - this will be pretty essential as I intend to start digging in soon!

My car seems to be some form of Old English white, though it looks like the front hood at least used to be red. Same with a couple of other places. Is there an easy way to find out what color the car was originally?

Marcdeb, this is the interior. It looks to be in too good a condition to be original, but then again, I’m not too sure of some of these fine points of Ghias.

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I would guess the door cards are original (as they are in a pretty bad way!)

I’m hoping to get to the Bowden sleeve this weekend. Once I get that done, I’m going to order some new bushings for the shifter and replace the Empi looking Hurst type shifter, with something a little more in keeping with a 50s / 60s design icon!

I’m also toying with the idea of taking it to a dent repair place (once I get it driving well enough that I’m confident to make the trip) to see if they can iron out some of the panels, before I try cleaning the blow-over paint job it received sometime in the past. Smile
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Those door cards are aftermarket replacements, as they have the 67-74 style pattern.

61-66 door cards had this pattern with the 4-pleat stripe, accented by one upper trim strip and 2 lower trim strips.
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Your seats are definitely not original, as there was never that insert fabric available from VW. Factory 61-66 front seats had 6 vertical pleats, either in vinyl or with a fabric insert (which was typically houndstooth). Rear 61-66 seats had a full face insert with no pleats to match the front, not two seperate inserts.
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You can find more about original paint and interior colors here, listed by model year:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/paintcodesghia.php
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD

Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue


Last edited by Era Vulgaris on Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:54 am; edited 3 times in total
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rbsurfguy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Seat upholstery is definitely not original. My dad use to make seats with that pattern for dune buggies we built back in the 70's and 80's. Looked good in those, but not in a Ghia. Had flashbacks when I saw those seats!
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Ha ha ha. Thank you for the photos, info and link Era.
Great to know and what I think I will be looking for eventually.
I will be pouring over the color link - thank you!

Sorry for the flashbacks Jeff. They are cool in their own way, but will be on the way out too eventually.

It would be nice to have something closer to original with a few sympathetic modifications - like slightly lower than stock.

I’m still waiting for the Empi 5 spokes to grow on me, but think I can see a set of detailed solid /smoothies in my future!

Any suggestions for a nice shift lever? I know that Ghias had their own style shift knob. We’re the originals straight shafts or bent?
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Peter D.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Nice Ghia! I think that white color for 1963 was Pearl White. You would have to check in the truck or engine compartment to see if it's ever been painted another color. If you're lucky you'll see a tag somewhere in the trunk that says Pearl White in German.

Pearl white cars came with a brick red interior: https://www.thesamba.com
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If you're on a budget, TMI makes a decent enough interior kit that is close to original but not perfect.

Anyway, that's a very nice car. As long as it's running and driving, I wouldn't sweat the details. Just drive and enjoy!
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

That’s a brilliant interior - love it and thanks for posting!

I’m wondering if my car was originally white or if it was brick red from the production line (not that it really matters, but it’s an itch I have to scratch!!!)

What’s making me wonder is that there are a few places where a deep red color is showing through…

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Here these seems to be red on the hood standoffs too…


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I can see some in the corners of the engine lid cooling louvres

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There is some evidence on the hood springs (but it might be on top) though interestingly, under the wiring is all white (which would have been a pain to paint with a different color.

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The engine bay seems to be mostly free though and no evidence on the springs there.

Interestingly, the rubber edge for the door seal is red, which would suggest that once upon a time it had a red interior.

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That would seem to go with a white car as well.

I wonder if, whoever gave it the newer blowover used a red primer first?

Any thoughts (I know, I should just get on and enjoy it!) Razz
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Kester,
Assuming the body was never removed, which it certainly could have been during all these years, but if not, a couple of places that could show the original color is under the dash, behind undercoating, inside a rear fender area (behind the rear tail lights), and behind the mud guard at the back of the front wheel well. Another good location is with the windows rolled down, use a flashlight to look through the window opening at the inside of the doors.
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68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

^^^
Great tips - thank you Marc!
It beginning to look like it was originally white and has had some sort of red primer, glibly applied at some point in time. Very Happy

Thank you!

I had to work away again this weekend - at a house that is a 4 hr drive away, so the Bowden tube remains unaltered, though the kind postman has delivered a new tube, a new set of bushings, a shifter linkage and a couple of seals and a clutch cable nut to me. Spookily, it’s almost as if he knows what I’m up to… Laughing
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Started to play with the car for the first time today. Still investigating into the darker recesses… Very Happy

First up was the Bowden tube that needed spacing. I bought a replacement tube in case I needed it, but hopefully just shimming it should prevent the launch bunny hops of the clutch.

Starting with some washers, I opened the middle up to just fit. This was where the spare new tube came in helpful!

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Then slotted it to fit from the side.

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I’ve not owned a car with Empi 5s before. The nut set up was interesting…

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Then using a couple of zip ties, took the force off the tube, by pulling the clutch arm back against the tube connection.
Dropped in 3 slotted washers from different directions, and the jobs a good one!

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The gear stick (some sort of T shifter) was rattling like a set of marbles in a bucket. Unfortunately when I popped the shifter off, some sort of botch underneath exploded! Took me an hour and a half to piece it all back together until I can grab some parts. Looks like a big job taking the shaft out so that I can put a bushing in there (there isn’t one in there at the moment).
The access panel at the frame head looks a tight fit around the front beam. Having to go so far as removing the horn assembly just to get the shift rod out, looks to be a busy day!

I also unpacked some wheels to see what they might look like once I buy some tires!

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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Whitewalls arrived. Next to get them mounted up!

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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

A belated congrats!
Looks like you found a nice example.

Shift rod bushings are split. No need to remove the shift rod.
Hopefully the bracket hasn't detached from the tunnel.
That's a more involved repair.
Have fun!
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Mnmunky
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 87 to 22 = 63 (Ghia) Reply with quote

Hello there Kingkarmann. Thanks for the reply and kind words!

I’m trying to come up with a ‘simple’ solution to the shift rod bushing. I have a small space here where I’m trying to work out a reasonable solution:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9993568#9993568

If I get something to work, I’ll make the file available to anyone who wants to print one.

Unfortunately the bracket has detached on mine, so it looks like I’ll be breaking the grinder and welder out at some point! Fun surprises await the owners of most classics! Laughing

I’m really enjoying playing with the car so far. I have a birthday coming up soon (which is big numbers but it’s better than the alternative…) and am going to treat myself to some refreshed front suspension components.

Unlike the 912, parts for the Ghia actually seem affordable (mostly). It makes a real pleasure putting things back together on it.
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