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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:36 pm Post subject: 36hp dual relief |
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How difficult would you think it would be to covert a 36hp for dual relief like the 1600cc case..I know the case would need welded since at the rear " flywheel" side its missing material..I think if it was welded
" weld build up" and machine work it may be work...what are your guys thought.... |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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probably easier to tap the main galley and add some external pressure relief. Or tap it for full flow and use a filter mount that has a built in relief valve, like the Jaycee one. where you tap it depends on if you want the pressure relief before, or after the main bearing feed? _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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Good point ...but I think a built in type on the case would be better in my opinion.. I could be wrong or just stuborn to do it like that ... |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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Better how? It’s certainly more work. And you risk trashing a case if your idea doesn’t pan out. Not trying to dissuade you, but it does seem like the more difficult approach. I weld mag cases sometimes. I certainly wouldn’t want to build up that much mass and then machine it. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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True true ..it would be alot of welding and work .. I remember someone or hearing that a type 3 that some one or empi back in the day made a adapter "relief " piston and spring that bolted up to the case..I remember seeing the article but it never showed the part just talked about it ...and like always when it's time to look and find it you can't find it ..I been searching for it can't find it ...I know this is off topic but yeah I also would like to relocate the main case studs on the #1 bearing and to do this inside the case would need welding as well I'm looking to do this to have all 3 mains with 55mm jounals /bearings but if I do/did this the stock main stud holes on #1 saddle are now my problem because if the new main studs are now in a differnt location when the case is line bored for the new bigger bearing now the stud holes will be the problem ..I was thinking of having the case saddle where the stud holes are open mill it and welding the saddle /hole so when the case is line bored for the new bigger bearing those holes will be filled in ...I know crazy and a lot of welding ...I just been thinking of upgrading the 36hp case as much but my concern is warpage there was a guy here on the samba that said he has welding bearing saddles before with no problems in a past ..that's how I got the idea of moving the main studs further out on # 1 bearing .with relocating the main studs on #1 now all the 6main studs would be at equal height i would need to weld just above the top of the case do to the fact the case is slanted where new stud and the nut would bolt on to ....but I've always wanted to add another relief to the 36hp case there are other ways to add a relief but with all that welding it's a risk I have some 36hp junk cases to mess with but idk it would be cool though ....I know crazy ..I'm just better off making a new 36hp case that has all the upgrades I want duel relief, main studs on #1 relocated for bigger main 55mm crank jounal #1 bearing , maybe have the case have more material under the cam saddle so that it can be machined for cam bearings , new case would be aluminum, and last but not lease fix the lifter bore /case that uses the 356 lifters ... wouldn't that be nice lol but than again some well many vw guys will say that ain't no 36hp case....now that would be an ultimate36hp case ... |
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scotty timmerman Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2010 Posts: 997 Location: gigharbor W.A
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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scotty timmerman wrote: |
I use a gene berg oil pump cover with pressure relief. Case drilled and tapped for full flow and oil pump studs drilled and tapped for 8mm studs.
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I was told by a number of folks that/ those covers are no good engines always have problems with them and once replaced with a regular fullflow cover no problems ..I've thought about using the jaycee cover before but was told they are no good for Street use only drag racing ...I've seen a number of those covers on street engines but like I said some will say no good ...I have no experience with them so I'm not 100% about them and their function I'm not bashing it ether..it's a 50/50 ..jaycee in a good designer so I highly doubt he would make a part thats no good ...[/list] |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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True, the berg pressure relief covers would be better if the dumped oil was returned back to the sump and not just back into the pump gears. There is definitely greater risk for cavitation as the oil gets run run through the hi and low sides of the pump over and over..
I'd much rather run this piece:
https://www.ssaircooled.com/jaycee-enterprises-vw-...-jc-2115-0
The Jaycee pump is well reviewed and looks nice, and I've seen one being mocked up on a test fit engine assembly. But, my feeling was that it's too much hardware hiding under the pulley, tin, and muffler. Not that it needs to be serviced, but getting the return line to sit just right was a PITA for the guy.
He di run it on a street car with no issues. But again, no idea if it could be adapted to a 36hp case _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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OK I may have found what I was saying ..In previous post above ...maybe I'm reading it wrong or what but did vw type 3 S use a oil relife external bypass adapter ....it's the 3 post you can see the picture where the oil pressure sender is that an adapter I've never seen one or anything just this picture..👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=304727 |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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pretty sure that just represents the t3 oil cooler, which houses the idiot light switch _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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Ohhh ..lol I'm an idiot maybe I should of study the type 3 engine more lol ..looks like the oil sender switch in on the oil cooler .which that shows in that post got it ..idiot I am lol 😂 I was think it was some adapter for a second relief ...yeah to much thinking I'm all over the place ..... |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp dual relief |
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[email protected] wrote: |
scotty timmerman wrote: |
I use a gene berg oil pump cover with pressure relief. Case drilled and tapped for full flow and oil pump studs drilled and tapped for 8mm studs. |
I was told by a number of folks that/ those covers are no good engines always have problems with them and once replaced with a regular fullflow cover no problems ..I've thought about using the jaycee cover before but was told they are no good for Street use only drag racing ...I've seen a number of those covers on street engines but like I said some will say no good ...I have no experience with them so I'm not 100% about them and their function I'm not bashing it ether..it's a 50/50 ..jaycee in a good designer so I highly doubt he would make a part thats no good ...[/list] |
I've been using the Gene Berg 36hp "full flow" filter oil system with a pressure relief valve for many years now with absolutely no problems whatsoever.
I've also installed many on customers engines and never had any negative feedback concerning leaks, foaming oil, pressure loss or ?
What I've also learned over my 45+ years building these 25hp / 36hp engines is testing different products to see what works and what doesn't.
I haven't tried other pressure relief covers because what I'm using now works for me. I think what is "key" here is I actually tested the products
that I use to build the engines and how they perform or don't.....If I listened to people and not actually test products myself, I wouldn't be
in business all these years. What works for some people may not work for others for whatever reasons....At the end of the day, TEST THOSE PRODUCTS!
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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