Type 4 engine catastrophy ?

[CrazyTestPilot]

Just got back from a dunes trip. While on a run my type 4 2413 engine had a problem. The oil filter cracked and blew out all the oil. I was unaware as it happened quickly. All of a sudden the engine started running rough, made a clunck noise and then just stopped. I thought it was toast for sure. However after adding oil it started right up and ran fine and did so for the rest of the trip (3-4 days). Should I assume there was serious damage done and have it dismantled and inspected or just keep running it?

[madmike]

Time to check the bearings
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'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[oprn]

Do you not have an oil pressure gauge? Or an idiot light?

The first check is to put a gauge in it now and see what your oil pressure is both cold and hot, idle and on the road. If it's normal, carry on.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[CrazyTestPilot]

Yes there is a gauge. Cold is about 40-50psi and warmed up it's about 10-15 psi. Can I inspect the internals myself? I'm only a mechanic when I have to be so I'm no pro but I think I should be able to handle it as long as I know what to look for, which currently I don't.

[oprn]

The next thing I would do is drain the oil and take it to a bright lite to see if there is a metallic sheen or metal bits in it. If there isn't and the oil pressure has not change then you dodged a big one, drive it.

As far as taking it apart - yes you can do it. I would expect the rod bearings to show the first signs of stress from lack of oil but I personally would not tear it down on a "maybe" or a "what if".

Unless you are totally bored and need something to do...
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[CrazyTestPilot]

Good advice. Thank you.

[oprn]

Cut the filter open, rinse it out onto a dark colored garbage can lid with varsol or gas and look for metal flecks in there too.

I suspect though that being as it finished the trip (3 to 4 days) without issues all is well.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[CrazyTestPilot]

Finally opened up the engine.... Catastrophe..Yes!!

[madmike]

That's the 'Then Just Stopped, Part'
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[oprn]

Ouch!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[VWporscheGT3]

ohhh yeah... full skirt scuff.... lack of lubrication... she got a little seizey...
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[nextgen]

Goes to show how fast you can blow an engine. My story was in different temperature conditions. Just started a new job. NY was hit by 17 snow storms and the temp was below zero f. My Generator light went on, I was doing 60 on a major highway and the plows pushed the snow to the sides of the road, so no place to stop till the next exit that was about 2 miles away. Got to the exit and was on the ramp when I heard the same sounds and then a bang. MY FAN BELT BLEW !!!! It was my 1600 T-1 in 1989. Look under the bug and oil was coming out of the case with some parts. Lucky i had my first 914 T-4 2.0 I wrote my manual about 1n 1993 ready to be installed in better weather.

Ok no oil filter.. Stock T-1 but even in that cold it did not take long.
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[modok]

Lucky
the piston seizing stopped you
BEFORE it melted the bearings.

[nextgen]

Well the case may still be be ok, unlike my story, with parts on the road and big hole. Amazing you were able to drive it that long after. Best of luck.
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs

[CrazyTestPilot]

So I got real lucky. The cylinders were fine just gave them a hone.Micro'd clearances were ok. The bearings "seem" fine. I was able to get all new rings and one piston for $200. She's going back together now but with a low oil pressure alarm this time. Any body got any good tricks for getting the wiper rings into the cylinder? It's a really tight squeeze and a PITA!! Thanks all.

[raygreenwood]

So.....back to your very first post:

"The oil filter cracked and it blew out all the oil. I was unaware as it happened quickly"

Besides the good question already asked of what warning system were you using.....pressure gauge or idiot light....even before that, let's go back to the root cause.

Why did your oil filter "blow out"? Yes, its not totally uncommon especially on certain brands years back but this is "probably" telling you that your pressure is WAAAY too high.

Just a few posts back you noted cold was 40-50 psi dropping to 10-15 psi when warmed up. I am assuming you mean at idle rpm right?

That's not uncommon either. Thats why you have the oil pressure relief valve to bypass the oil cooler when its cold to keep it from being 80-90 psi at idle

But pretty quickly even before the engine overall is even warmed up, you should be seeing lower oil pressure than than 40-50 psi at idle within just a couple minutes.

So what was your oil pressure when driving at rpms say....above 2500? What kind of oil filter was it? Brand?

Ray

[oprn]

Ray, it's not the oil cooler bypass that protects against high pressure, it's the pressure relief plunger at the front of the case. Is it stuck shut?
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Vanapplebomb]

That valve on the lower front of the 3/4 side case half is the oil cooler bypass valve. All type 4 engines have that valve.

Pre-hydraulic T4 engines also had a valve on the 1/2 side of the case which would dump oil from the 1/2 lifter oil passage back into the case when oil pressure was excessive. Hydraulic motors did away with that valve.

Either valve could be an issue (if not hydraulic).

There is also an oil filter bypass (spring loaded ball bearing) on the oil filter mount… but that is usualy not an issue, and only comes into play with large pressure differentials across the oil filter… and not overall pressure.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[raygreenwood]

[Zed999]

He's blasting about in a buggy in the dunes with a 2.4L engine and says he cracked his oil filter. I assumed something hit it?