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Air Cooleds Only Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Prescott, AZ
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:26 am Post subject: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Hey guys. I have a guy in Florida trying to legally threaten me into selling him my VW kit car.
Facts:
Me and the car are in AZ
He's a FL attorney and he's a real person.
I signed a Florida bill of sale
I asked for a deposit, however there's been NO money transferred or timeline/info to do so.
I told him I wanted to back out of deal because I found a buyer who will meet my terms.
Now he's upset and threating me saying I'm locked into the deal and I have to sell it to him and he will take me to court for damages if I don't follow through.
Very weird deal, if anyone has some USEFULL INSIGHT please help.
Thank You
Chris _________________ Air Cooleds Only |
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babysnakes Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7106
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Wow, a bill of sale is like a receipt. You got no funds from him but he has paper that said you sold it to him. Is that correct. I live in Fl. BTW. No real legal expertise. But you need a title in your name in order to legally claim possession. Years ago a friend gifted me a Karman Ghia and gave me a bill of sale. The car got stolen a few days later. The car was found 1.5 years later in a body shop. Turned out I knew the thief but they new a Fl. loop hole and got a title. The cops did not care about my bill of sale. You still have the title I assume. |
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Air Cooleds Only Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Prescott, AZ
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Yes I still have car and title _________________ Air Cooleds Only |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12850 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Contact the attorney general in his jurisdiction, I bet they would love to crawl up his ass. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2495 Location: high ridge, mo
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Tell him to bring the cash and pick it up and be done with it. Or you can piss off an attorney who doesn’t have to pay for an attorney. Might be time to consult a real attorney instead of the peanut gallery. _________________ My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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You don’t need an attorney until someone shows up and served you papers.
Ignore him _________________ .ssS! |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13848 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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He is welcome to come and get the vehicle when funds for the car are received.
It is that simpleas funds have not been exchanged.
What did the bill of sale say and did you keep a copy??? _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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67ctbug Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016 Posts: 3619 Location: CT
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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babysnakes wrote: |
Wow, a bill of sale is like a receipt. You got no funds from him but he has paper that said you sold it to him. Is that correct. I live in Fl. BTW. No real legal expertise. But you need a title in your name in order to legally claim possession. Years ago a friend gifted me a Karman Ghia and gave me a bill of sale. The car got stolen a few days later. The car was found 1.5 years later in a body shop. Turned out I knew the thief but they new a Fl. loop hole and got a title. The cops did not care about my bill of sale. You still have the title I assume. |
That depends where you live too. FL is different I'm sure, but here in CT, once a car is 20 years old that's it for titles. If you present one to the DMV, it is destroyed. Bill of sale and previous registration only and even then, the registration is just a nice bonus. _________________ '67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
mukluk wrote: |
He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69813 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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First of all, this:
Abscate wrote: |
You don’t need an attorney until someone shows up and served you papers.
Ignore him |
I've been threatened to be sued I don't know how many times, 20x? 50x?
I ignore it unless something comes to me from an actual lawyer.
I say actual because I've got a few fake letters from "lawyers," lol.
I am interested in your situation though:
What does the bill of sale say?
No terms on when payment/deposit has to be made or ?
I mean you can agree to sell him the car but that doesn't mean he can pay you 5 years later because you had a "deal".
I normally only do a bill of sale when I got paid... unless we had some deal in place in which case it's spelled out in a document. Deposit on this date, full payment to be made by this date, and so on. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Yes.. What is spelled out on the bill of sale...?
What were/are the terms?
Does it state you acknowledge receipt of payment?
Does it say something like "I hereby sell for the amount of.." "on this date" or "seller agrees to sell, and buyer agrees to purchase.."
Ask the buyer to provide proof of payment.
The deal isn't complete until all parties do what they are suppose to.
Tell the buyer if he doesn't produce the payment and proof of payment(receipt) that you may have "damages" in the way of lost opportunity to sell to another ready/willing buyer. |
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Air Cooleds Only Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Prescott, AZ
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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This is what was filled out, incomplete I might add.
It had no seller signature or ODO information on the draft I signed.
_________________ Air Cooleds Only |
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blue72beetle Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008 Posts: 846 Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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OWNERSHIP STATUS FOR THE ABOVE DESCRIBED MOTOR VEHICLE, MOBILE HOME, OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE OR VESSEL
WILL NOT CHANGE UNTIL THE PURCHASER APPLIES FOR AND IS ISSUED A CERTIFICATE OF TITLE. |
Right at the bottom of the form. Tell him to pound sand. _________________ -Andy-
-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI- |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5475 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Air Cooleds Only wrote: |
This is what was filled out, incomplete I might add.
It had no seller signature or ODO information on the draft I signed.
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No seller signature, or no buyer signature? You should not sign that document without section 2 filled out, you are attesting to the accuracy with your signature and the buyer could write anything in there.
Is there a price entered in section 1? You should not sign without showing an agreed price. If you have not been paid for the vehicle he cannot sign that without committing perjury.
When is this "lawyer" supposed to be paying you and taking delivery? Perhaps you can tell him that the vehicle will be stored outside unless he agrees to start paying a daily storage fee. Local storage units can get you a price idea.
Perhaps spending for a consult with a local attorney would not be a bad idea at this point. You signature can be valuable and costly. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12850 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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For the benefit of the rest of the community, was this a Samba member? If not, have you searched the feedback thread for said person? If there isn’t any feedback on them, you might want to start one. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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AirHead1966 Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2019 Posts: 568 Location: Triad Area NC
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Parties have a contract in that Bill of Sale; there may be additional communications between parties that show intent to enter into a contract. You can back out if you want but that is not in accordance with law of contract. You both agreed to this sale and you both enjoy the benefit of your bargain.
Unless the buyer breaches the contract by not fulfilling his obligation of paying the agreed amount or by not paying within an agreed upon time, you are obligated to sell it to him. A party breaching the contract or the parties agreeing to terminate the contract are typically the only legal ways to terminate such contracts. Even a breach may require specific performance by the breaching party.
You can back out and the buyer may or may not want to pursue a remedy; that would depend on the buyer's resolve. Based upon what I have read here, he may have a remedy.
I am an attorney, but this is not legal advice; I am merely stating a legal principle. Every case turns on details and without a looking at the details, without going over all communications parties have had, without examining the verbiage, no one should offer legal advice. For that matter, no lawyer should publicly offer a legal advice at all.
Last edited by AirHead1966 on Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Air Cooleds Only Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Prescott, AZ
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
For the benefit of the rest of the community, was this a Samba member? If not, have you searched the feedback thread for said person? If there isn’t any feedback on them, you might want to start one. |
Not a samba member. _________________ Air Cooleds Only |
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Air Cooleds Only Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Prescott, AZ
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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AirHead1966 wrote: |
Parties have a contract in that Bill of Sale; there may be additional communications between parties that show intent to enter into a contract. You can back out if you want but that is not in accordance with law of contract. You both agreed to this sale and you both enjoy the benefit of your bargain.
Unless the buyer breaches the contract by not fulfilling his obligation of paying the agreed amount or by not paying within an agreed upon time, you are obligated to sell it to him. A party breaching the contract or the parties agreeing to terminate the contract are typically the only legal ways to terminate such contracts. Even a breach may require specific performance by the breaching party.
You can back out and the buyer may or may not want to pursue a remedy; that would depend on the buyer's resolve. Based upon what I have read here, he may have a remedy.
I am an attorney, but this not legal advice; I am merely stating a legal principle. Every case turns on details and without a looking at the details, without going over all communications parties have had, without examining the verbiage, no one should offer legal advice. For that matter, no lawyer should publicly offer a legal advice at all. |
I received similar thoughts from an attorney in Nevada.
Thanks for ALL the replies.
I was close to telling him to come sue me, however he can easily and affordably for him start a case against me, no matter if I win or not in court, I would still have to pay an attorney to defend me. I don't have an attorney in my family, so I decided to continue the deal with him and I wrote a very detailed Contract and Sales Agreement.
It still blows my mind that I could be forced to sell my own property when he had no tangible investment into the deal. I'll just learn my lesson, and move along now. I hope this experience helps someone down the line.
Don't sign anything unless YOUR TERMS ARE CLEARLY LISTED AND MET.... P E R I O D! _________________ Air Cooleds Only |
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blue72beetle Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008 Posts: 846 Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Make sure you rub your balls all over the steering wheel before you ship it. _________________ -Andy-
-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI- |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5475 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehicle |
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Air Cooleds Only wrote: |
Don't sign anything unless YOUR TERMS ARE CLEARLY LISTED AND MET.... P E R I O D! |
WISDOM right there!
I would also look into your states vehicle sales requirements -- you may need his signature, you may be required to do a sellers report of sale, you may need to remove the license plates, or??? (50 states and 50 different sets of rules!) _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone know Florida Contract Law regarding Selling a Vehi |
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asked for a deposit, however there's been NO money transferred or timeline/info to do so.
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That’s an incomplete contract at best and would be tossed out of court _________________ .ssS! |
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