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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:35 pm Post subject: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Hello there fellow Sambanistas! I'm starting this thread to document the restoration of my 1974 KG with the eventual goal to make it look like a Ghia Sport model (yes, I know they were 1973-only). This is my 20th air cooled VW and my third Karmann Ghia. If you see the links to my other projects you will see that I don't mess around and take a long time to finish a project. My goal is to have this car ready for paint by Spring 2023.
The backstory: I got this car for free in May 2021. The 2nd owner needed it moved out of the garage of his second home so he could sell the house. He was told that the car wasn't worth anything. I saw the ad on CL for $45 and thought surely he meant $4500. But no, he just wanted the title transfer paid. Luckily I was the first to call him and flat towed the car home the next day. It was in pretty rough shape and one good thing about having Covid was my loss of smell because the interior reeked (so I was told) and it was probably from the 10lb mouse nest I found in the headliner!
After getting the car home I started evaluating it and put a battery in it and poured a little gas down the carb and it fired right up. I was amazed. Before going much further I decided I'd better do an oil change. It was then that I discovered that the oil pickup tube had come loose inside the engine. I would have to split the case to press it back in it's hole. I decided at that point to pull and preserve the original engine and build a new one. After doing some research I decided to build a spicy little 1967cc engine (74X92). I got all new parts including a C/W crank, Porsche-length rods, 041 big valve heads, and a Scat C35 cam. At first I had dual 34mm baby Webers but it wasn't enough so I switched to 40mm HPMX carbs. I am running an MSD clone dizzy with a 40K volt coil and a Crane Cams ignition box. Needless to say, it rips!
I decided to drive it as-is through the spring and summer and do the exterior resotration this winter. Knowing that, I had a little fun with a Herbie based paint scheme. I switched the numbers to '74' shortly after putting the 53 on there. Here's some pictures.
First ones after towing it home:
Engine parts:
Engine in the car:
Before the resto started:
Starting on the resto, both pans need work. the passenger side was better and only needed 1/4 pans for the rear.
The drivers side is a little worse but in my opinion only needs a rear 1/4 section and some patching in a few other areas.
The outer rockers are shot but inside looks solid.
Stay tuned for more!
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3030
Location: Vermont
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:33 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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I’d pull the body if you have space and do the entire pans. The repair sections are terrible and it’s hard to get a seamless repair. With the body off you might find that the inside and underside of the rockers are also roached.
That’s a dang nice car for $45!
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
I’d pull the body if you have space and do the entire pans. The repair sections are terrible and it’s hard to get a seamless repair. With the body off you might find that the inside and underside of the rockers are also roached.
That’s a dang nice car for $45! |
Ideally I would pull the body off the pan but I don't have the time, budget, or space to do it. Also, the rust really isn't that bad. The drivers side is the worst and after cutting the outer rocker skin the inner structure is not that bad.
The pans are pretty much done. I have a few more patches to make and then they will get a coat of POR 15 and be ready for another 50 years.
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4406
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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Olli from NJ
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 301
Location: Milton,DE
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:12 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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I couldn't help but notice the FFR sticker....I have built 3.
Olli |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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JAL78
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2017
Posts: 127
Location: Novato, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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| toddb_67 wrote: |
| Marcdeb wrote: |
Looking forward to seeing the work progress and the final outcome. Car looks great with the Herbie badging.  |
Thanks, it was fun while it lasted but I am going for this look.
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The car in the photo of your example is not 100% correct. If you are interested in creating a true authentic Sport Edition replica you will need to install the special “Sport wheels” to complete the look of the exterior. These may be very difficult to find. The later beetles and Porsche 914’s had Lemertz wheels as an option that are very similar that may be more available. Good luck with your project!!
_________________
1956 Beetle Oval Rag top with Judson SC
1958 Karmann Ghia convertible
1959 Karmann Ghia coupe
1961 Karmann Ghia convertible
1965 Karmann Ghia convertible
1973 Karmann Ghia convertible Sport Edition
1974 Thing |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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| JAL78 wrote: |
| toddb_67 wrote: |
| Marcdeb wrote: |
| Looking forward to seeing the work progress and the final outcome. Car looks great with the Herbie badging. |
Thanks, it was fun while it lasted but I am going for this look.
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The car in the photo of your example is not 100% correct. If you are interested in creating a true authentic Sport Edition replica you will need to install the special “Sport wheels” to complete the look of the exterior. These may be very difficult to find. The later beetles and Porsche 914’s had Lemertz wheels as an option that are very similar that may be more available. Good luck with your project!! |
I plan to make it my own, and more like the sport beetle, with blacked out bumpers, mirrors, and all the trim. I have old crusty bumpers that I will black out and a good set for switching it back . That is another goal is to make this totally reversible if the next owner wants to. It already has these Riviera wheels and they will likely stay on the car.
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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c21darrel
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Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9637
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Good plan to make a "Sports Ghia" clone. Some suggestions:
Bumpers: Yes, use the worse ones to straighten and paint/coat them satin black. Be sure to obtain a yellow tape (e.g., marine supply) to apply to the center notch just like the factory '73 SportsBug had. This visually breaks the bulkiness of the bumper.
SportsBug yellow color was 13M Saturn Yellow.
Wheels: I also agree that a proper SportsGhia should have the "+" style steel Sport Wheels. This style came in 4.5" and 5.5" widths among VW and Porsche 914, both with a few offsets. Made by Lemmerz (correct spelling). Late Ghias and non-sport Super Beetles had the 4.5" with ca. 46 mm offset, which looked dorky. SportsBug sport wheels were 5.5" wide with 26 mm offset, the most "deep dish" offset design. I only remember seeing 2 late big-bumper Ghias in the past 2 decades that had this specific rim fitted. The rear rim brings the tire very close to the fender edge. So much so, that on one car. the owner mentioned the tire barely touched the fender edge whereby the same rim+tire on the other side of the rear had about 1/4" clearance. What he did was loosen all the body bolts and push the body over from the tight side so that the tire-to-fenderwell gaps evened out.
You can find 5.5" Porsche 914 sport wheels which have 40 mm offset, and fit either 185/65 or 195/65 tires. The additional 14 mm (just over 1/2 ") inward offset compared to SportsBug 5.5" rims brings the wheels away from the rear fenderwell edge. When you see images of sport wheels, the offset is stamped on one of the flat lands near a lug bolt hole as "ETxx" such as ET40. ET stands for the German words Einpress Tiefe which is "press-in depth".
Hope you also treat the double-row body side moldings and the headlight rings to the same satin black as the bumpers. |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| Welding galvanized metal is very toxic. Probably best to just use steel, coat the inside if lasting for 50 years isnt enough. Good Luck. |
Thanks, I have welded galvanized steel before and as long as I grind away the galvanizing on the area I'm welding it should be fine.
Rome, thanks for all the great information! I was planning to do exactly as you stated and black out all the chrome including the mirror. I was also planning to put a yellow stripe in the middle of the blacked out bumpers. I will keep my eyes out for some sport wheels, I didn't know there was a difference between them. Occasionally I see some for sale out here.
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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A little more progress today (I try to do a little something every day). I am using a few new products this go around and so far I like them. The weld through primer is pretty expensive but to have the peace of mind that there is something behind the repair panels is worth it. The other product wasn't too expensive and it's a rust converter by Dupli Color. So far I like it, it comes out clear and dries like spray paint and leaves the metal a black color.
Here's a before and after spraying on the rust converter.
Ever wonder what it looks like behind the small pin holes of rust one finds on the outside of the car? I started poking at these "small" pin holes and my pick easily went through them. I decided it would be best to cut that area out.
Here is the weld through primer. I also sprayed the back of the repair panels before welding them on. Didn't seem to slow my welder down at all.
I try to be patient with these repairs and jump from one side to the other on the repairs to keep the heat from warping the panel.
Mostly done, just have a little more grinding and hunting down the little pin holes that need some filling with weld after grinding them down.
A few more patches to make and the decklid will be done. Moving on to the drivers side rocker area soon.
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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More progress today. Finished the decklid welds and ground down as best as I could. This area is going to need a skim coat of filler to be sure but it's better than it was!
Had to fill a few pin holes after grinding.
After final grinding.
My drivers side inner wheel well had a nasty spot of rust. One theory I have for why my drivers side is so much worse than the passenger side is that this car was in an accident at some point and the nose/ drivers side fender was replaced. The repair work was not that great as there is heavy bondo on the area and the fresh air vent box is pretty mangled where it meets the nose. Whoever did the repair also didn't replace the fender liner and that allowed dirt, water and other debris to get into the drivers side rocker.
Any advice on how to proceed with repairing this?
The inner wheel well patch was pretty straight forward. I made an inner and outer patch from galvanized steel and I primed the inside and back of the repair panels before welding them in. This patch isn't pretty but it doesn't have to be because it will get some sealer and some undercoating sprayed on so it will never be seen.
Thanks for reading along. Any advice is happily listened to!
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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TRS63
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Joined: December 17, 2017
Posts: 996
Location: Stuttgart - Germany
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:54 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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| TRS63 wrote: |
Good to go ahead in saving this ghia!
Concerning pour welding, I think the penetration is way too low, you have to move the power up on the welder. Your last 2 pictures shows it well, some wire "glued" on top of the surface and stay high but not penetrating..maybe take some time, and put 2 pieces of metal on your workbench and try several settings until it looks good from both sides. Then you can go to the car 😉
Bests
Antoine |
Antoine, thanks for the tips unfortunately I don't have a fancy welder and it has minimal settings. If I turn the heat up one more notch it will blow through the thin sheet metal. Luckily I have lots of grinding disks!
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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