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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4407 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Just so you all don't think I'm slacking, here's an update. I've been concentrating my efforts on the drivers side rocker panel repairs. It's taking me a while because I'm having to fabricate all of these pieces from scratch. Christmas arrived for the Ghia too and I got a bunch (hopefully all I need!) of repair panels too. The welds aren't pretty but they don't have to be since no one will ever see them except you and me!
Here we go:
_________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Happy New Year! I've had this whole week off work so I've been trying to get out and get something done everyday that I can. Some major progress has been made this week!
I've said before that this car was in an accident and the drivers side took the brunt of the damage. I didn't realize how much though. It seems this car must have been side-swiped because there is 1/8" or more layer of bondo on almost all of the drivers side panels. This is making me use the entire repair panels as opposed to just cutting out what is needed to repair the rust/damage. If only they could talk, this car would have some stories for sure.
Here is some of the products I'm using for this stage in case you are curious. The lap sealant is what I have been using for years to maintain my RV roof. This stuff is tough as nails, self-leveling, and easy to apply (like caulking on steroids). The 3M body filler was highly rated so I'm going to give it a try and the undercoating is self explanatory. On to the pix:
Some of the damage from the accident way back whenever.
After repairing the lower section, did I say I had to fabricate a lot of panels? Holy cow!
See how much bondo is on the rear area? There are also holes where they must have been pulling the panel out too (look by the blue piece of tape).
The rear panel is just tacked on. More welding a grinding is in my future here.
I feel like a real milestone has been passed. The driver side lower panels are all welded on. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now.
Any comments, suggestions, or critiques are welcome. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4407 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Buggeee wrote: |
toddb_67 wrote: |
Happy New Year! ...I feel like I'm getting somewhere now.
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You certainly are! I think it looks fantastic.
Thank you for sharing the images or repairing the inner structure. Very informative.
Happy New Year! |
Thanks! Regarding the inner structure, I can't tell you how much I just sat and stared at it. A lot of it really doesn't make sense, at least to me. There are panels bonded to other panels that are connected in strange ways. At the end of the day I would start by making a small patch and then add another and then sort of "glue" it all together. Behind the rockers on these cars is very different then I pictured it that's for sure! I hope by showing all this it can help someone in the future. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9640 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Good work with the reconstruction of the driver's side rocker!
For your inner wheelwell, do you have the removable mud panels/shields that fit into the rear body pocket? If so, you need at least 2 L-shaped legs to hold the small screws which hold the shields in place. Both of yours are missing.
Here's a shot of the lower one (Kuhlride gallery). Looks like its height corresponds to the lower side trim holes.
IIRC on my Ghias, the one leg simply has a hole, and the screw is gripped by a Tinnerman nut (aka speed nut) just like in this photo. If your right side panel is still present and comes off easily, just use the two legs as templates to make your own for the driver's side. I don't know if your late Ghia has another fastener at the top, but there is a rubber seal that goes onto the panel completely along the outer edge so that it seals against the inside surface of the fender.
If you don't have the driver's guard, you can use the one from the passenger side and make a template. I did that on my '64 Cabrio 35 years ago where the panel had rotted along the edges and bottom. I used galvanized sheet steel like from home heater ducting to make it, creating an approx. 1/4" lip all around for stiffness and for positioning the panel.
This is what the removed guard looks like, from Marcdeb's '71. Earlier Ghias don't have the long neck at the top. He did some repairs to this panel.
If you look up from the bottom of your rocker repair panel in the front wheelwell area, there should be 2 or 3 small round holes along the bottom which let out any water that collects in the inner curve of the fender. All that schmutz in Kuhlride/s photo is dirt that covered up the one hole so that the moisture in the dirt which promoted metal rot. Look at some top-notch original Ghia photos in recent Bring a Trailer auctions and you'll probably find such photos. Here are some holes further back along the rocker-
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:56 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Quote: |
For your inner wheelwell, do you have the removable mud panels/shields that fit into the rear body pocket? |
No, it is long gone, probably at the time of the accident and I credit it not being there as to why my drivers side rocker area was so rotted as opposed to my passenger side which you all will see is not nearly as bad.
Quote: |
If so, you need at least 2 L-shaped legs to hold the small screws which hold the shields in place. Both of yours are missing. |
Thank you so much for showing me what those look like! I was wondering how I was going to recreate those. I'm hoping the passenger side is still there.
Quote: |
If you look up from the bottom of your rocker repair panel in the front wheelwell area, there should be 2 or 3 small round holes along the bottom which let out any water that collects in the inner curve of the fender. |
Yes, those holes are there on the replacement panels. I also made sure the little triangle shaped drain holes were open too that are behind the rocker panels. Apparently they drain water/ debris from inside the heater channels. Thanks again for all the tips on the inner fender mud guards. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Continuing on with the drivers side, I decided to tackle the rear fender rust. I suspected it would be bad inside and it didn't disappoint. The car had also been rear ended or it backed into something and the bumper made some dents under the tail light. Luckily, the repair panel covered most of it and what was left was fairly easily hammer/ dollied out. Here we go:
As always, let me know if you see anything I could be doing better. I'll be happy to move over to the passenger side because I think it won't be nearly as bad. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4407 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Continuing on with some work I got done this weekend. First up on "things you don't want to find when restoring a car" more accident damage poorly repaired.
Decided to tackle the drivers side front floor pan. As soon as I touched the brake line it started leaking. I guess better now than when on the road!
New pan ready to go.
And, it's in
Just a couple of final grind shots. Yes, you can still see the weld but it is mostly smooth to the touch and will be getting a skim coat of filler.
This took a while as I would grind, find a few pin holes. Weld, grind some more, repeat until there was no more pin holes or unwelded areas. This part takes lots of time and patience. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4407 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Buggeee wrote: |
Looking good |
Thanks for following along!
Work continues, I took the pedal cluster out when I replaced the floor pan. I noticed the clutch hook on the cluster was pretty worn so I welded a few beads on there and ground it down to match the profile.
Finished sealing and painting the drivers pan.
Got the drivers door back on to check the gap and to get the car turned around.
See the gap, yikes! I'm just going to pretend I didn't see that for now but I will obviously have to address this huge overlap.
Now on to the passenger side which "should" be better than the drivers side.
It may be hard to tell but the rear fender area is not only rusty but has a decent dent in it too.
What's behind door number 1?
More rust!
No kidding, I probably removed 10lbs of dirt, rust, and other debris.
Here's a new tool that has been very helpful in grinding out curved areas and spot welds. They are $40 at hobo freight, totally worth it!
More to come and thanks for following along on this little adventure. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Mnmunky Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2012 Posts: 80 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Wow! Some great skills and patience there!
Thanks for posting. It makes me realize, my project is so easy! |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:15 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Mnmunky wrote: |
Wow! Some great skills and patience there!
Thanks for posting. It makes me realize, my project is so easy! |
Thank you sir!
I would say this is a pretty intense project and not for the faint at heart. But, it is doable with enough time, patience and practice. Hopefully whoever is reading this will realize that if taken one piece at a time it can be done. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Continuing on the passenger side this weekend. No big surprises so far. The headlight bucket on this side is bad compared to the drivers side but the drivers side was fender was replaced at some point so maybe that's why.
Started out okay. Then the more I ground the worse it got so I ended up making two patches.
The lower fender and rocker area went together pretty smoothly. I obviously still have some final grinding to do.
The rear lower fender went smoothly too, I think I'm getting the hang of this! A little final welding and grinding and it will be good to go.
_________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9640 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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In this photo you can see the mismatch of the bottom edge of the bottom of the rocker. The left area is correct. You could measure its height (e.g., 1/4"), then mark the rocker to its right (let's say it's 1/2" high) with that height, draw a straight line using a long straight-edge; and trim off that strip. Extend that straight line all the way to the front wheelwell opening. Use a thin cut-off wheel, then dress the edge with a grinder to slightly round off the cut edge. |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:49 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Rome wrote: |
In this photo you can see the mismatch of the bottom edge of the bottom of the rocker. The left area is correct. You could measure its height (e.g., 1/4"), then mark the rocker to its right (let's say it's 1/2" high) with that height, draw a straight line using a long straight-edge; and trim off that strip. Extend that straight line all the way to the front wheelwell opening. Use a thin cut-off wheel, then dress the edge with a grinder to slightly round off the cut edge. |
Rome, good eye and yes, that is exactly what I plan to do when I finish welding the back side of that panel. It's easier to weld with that little bit of extra material but when I'm done it will get trimmed and finish ground. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4407 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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toddb_67 wrote: |
I noticed the clutch hook on the cluster was pretty worn so I welded a few beads on there and ground it down to match the profile. |
I wonder if it would make sense to use a large drill bit or a round file to smooth out the surface inside the hook... so that the clutch cable end rotates smoothly without catching?
I'm enjoying your posts. I have an old beat ghia in the que (not as nice as yours) and watching you go first let's me imagine an attack plan for mine. _________________ 1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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toddb_67 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 1313 Location: Hansville, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:11 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Ghia resto; Ghia Sport clone |
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Buggeee wrote: |
toddb_67 wrote: |
I noticed the clutch hook on the cluster was pretty worn so I welded a few beads on there and ground it down to match the profile. |
I wonder if it would make sense to use a large drill bit or a round file to smooth out the surface inside the hook... so that the clutch cable end rotates smoothly without catching?
I'm enjoying your posts. I have an old beat ghia in the que (not as nice as yours) and watching you go first let's me imagine an attack plan for mine. |
Thanks for the ideas Buggeee. I used a half-round file on the welds to try and contour it back to it's original shape. I haven't reinstalled the pedal cluster yet because I just got new pedals to install first. But once it's back in there I'll let you know if it holds the cable on there.
Thanks for following along. Sometimes I feel like and example of what NOT to do! I have to balance how far I want to dig and what is good enough to fix it for now. More updates are coming soon. _________________ 1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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