Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
T3TRIS
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2017
Posts: 298
Location: Portland, OR
T3TRIS is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
Question: Does switching profiles while charging damage the charger?
Answer: Good question Brandon, the charger wonít allow a profile change whilst charging, this can only happen whilst the charger is idle and not engagedÖ


Not ideal but not the end of the world either I guess. First stop and go would change the profile. I wonder if the profile would change if the charging side of the BMS is deactivated and reactivated (as can be done with Bluetooth BMS). Or if the profile didnít get a chance to change, the battery could still be charged up to 90%. And 90% with 280Ah or 300Ah is still way more than enough for a long weekend of electrical debauchery Laughing
_________________
Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3589
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

Question: Does switching profiles while charging damage the charger?
Answer: Good question Brandon, the charger wonít allow a profile change whilst charging, this can only happen whilst the charger is idle and not engagedÖ
_________________
Brandon
'83.5 Westfalia "Jo Ann" EJ22e w/Peloquin
DM me on IG for quicker responses @brandon.r2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 16391
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

True there is no one size that fits all.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
T3TRIS
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2017
Posts: 298
Location: Portland, OR
T3TRIS is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I spent a lot of time thinking about what size dc to dc charger to get. I ended up with a 20amp charger. My alternator is a 120 amp charger. Camped with the heater running I use maybe 10 amps a night. Once on the road, my SOC is 100% in less than an hour of running the engine. Curious, how much power are you folks using in a 12 hour period?


Thereís also the element of camping several nights and days in one spot. The amp usage over that period of time can quickly climb especially with more features built into the rigs. Overbuilding the battery system usually has the end goal of making it invisible. Itís a luxury, sure, but itís nice never to have to worry about a depleted battery despite camping several days in the shade with nice comfort and features. Itís not for everyone of course, but the footprint of a well built ~300Ah lithium battery can be considered modest compared to the conveniences it offers. Iím building a 300Ah system right now with all the guts that should fit nicely in about half of the Westfalia bench storage, including all the fuses, low voltage disconnect, shunt, killswitch, and 30A shore, solar and DC charging.

Though I guess thatís not really the point of this thread Razz again, a capacity question distraction!
_________________
Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 16391
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
I spent a lot of time thinking about what size dc to dc charger to get. I ended up with a 20amp charger. My alternator is a 120 amp charger. Camped with the heater running I use maybe 10 amps a night. Once on the road, my SOC is 100% in less than an hour of running the engine. Curious, how much power are you folks using in a 12 hour period?


I will let you know once I am working on the beaches of Baja. Starlink satellite internet (5A DC), two laptops (one being a 230w developer laptop), a fridge, and a heater.

Battery bank is 280aH. To charge from 0% - 100%, it would take 14 hours at 20 amps, or 5.6 hours at 50 amps.


Sounds like work to me.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3589
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I spent a lot of time thinking about what size dc to dc charger to get. I ended up with a 20amp charger. My alternator is a 120 amp charger. Camped with the heater running I use maybe 10 amps a night. Once on the road, my SOC is 100% in less than an hour of running the engine. Curious, how much power are you folks using in a 12 hour period?


I will let you know once I am working on the beaches of Baja. Starlink satellite internet (5A DC), two laptops (one being a 230w developer laptop), a fridge, and a heater.

Battery bank is 280aH. To charge from 0% - 100%, it would take 14 hours at 20 amps, or 5.6 hours at 50 amps.
_________________
Brandon
'83.5 Westfalia "Jo Ann" EJ22e w/Peloquin
DM me on IG for quicker responses @brandon.r2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 16391
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

I spent a lot of time thinking about what size dc to dc charger to get. I ended up with a 20amp charger. My alternator is a 120 amp charger. Camped with the heater running I use maybe 10 amps a night. Once on the road, my SOC is 100% in less than an hour of running the engine. Curious, how much power are you folks using in a 12 hour period?
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3589
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Different manufacturer, but I wanted my dc to dc charger as close to my battery as possible. My logic was, its the DC to DC charger that is "cleaning" my alternator output voltage. By having the shortest run possible between my dc charger and my battery, I've lessened any sort of voltage drop that could show up due to length of cable, size, and resistance over time.


This is sound logic - and works for most use cases. My desire to mount externally was due to the cooling needed for the 50 amps of fury.
_________________
Brandon
'83.5 Westfalia "Jo Ann" EJ22e w/Peloquin
DM me on IG for quicker responses @brandon.r2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 16391
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

Different manufacturer, but I wanted my dc to dc charger as close to my battery as possible. My logic was, its the DC to DC charger that is "cleaning" my alternator output voltage. By having the shortest run possible between my dc charger and my battery, I've lessened any sort of voltage drop that could show up due to length of cable, size, and resistance over time.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
revolution337
Samba Member


Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 367
Location: Pennsylvania
revolution337 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
This is a bummer of a 'feature'. I am still on the fence about mounting it inside vs outside. The temperature-activated switch is a great idea, however not sure if it's worth working through that rather than just mounting to the inside.


Although I certainly understand your point, I wouldn't really call this feature itself a "bummer". The real bummer in this instance is not being able to manually select or bypass this feature if not needed in your application.

Lithium aux batteries are still a relatively new product on the market. Each year they are getting cheaper and easier to produce, but still cost more on average than an equivalent lead acid. I understand that a lot of battery manufacturers are making batteries that are self heating, and a lot of BMS's also have low temp charging protection build in. There are still plenty of lithium batteries that have no low temp systems in place, and that is where this Redarc feature comes into play. It's a nice "safety net" to have in place in the battery system, in case you are using a lower priced battery (non heating) or BMS without the low temp features.

In any case, I would love to see this feature kept in future Redarc units, but have it manually selectable/de-selectable.
_________________
1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
-Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3589
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

T3TRIS wrote:
Agreed, the BMS can handle the cold temperature threshold, especially since having a temperature sensor NOT on the cells themselves isnít very useful. This is definitely a drawback on the Redarc charger that I wasnít aware of when getting ours. I was actually thinking of relocating our charger to the outside somewhere, but now am rethinking because of that internal temperature sensor (not the durability of the charger though).
Changing the chargerís battery profile could be a good solution though (albeit not ideal of course). Iím thinking a normally-closed temperature switch. Both wires can be bridged by that temperature activated switch that would be powered by a key-in signal. The sensor would be taped to the outside of the charger. When the temperature is low, the switch is open and the chargerís in AGM mode. As soon as the chargerís temp climbs above a set temperature, the switch closes and the charger profile becomes lithium again. If the switch looses power, itís normally closed and the charging profile remains lithium.
The question is: does switching profiles while charging damage the charger?


I just responded to Redarc asking about switching profiles while charging. I imagine the charger would heat up quick given charging at 50 amps.

This is a bummer of a 'feature'. I am still on the fence about mounting it inside vs outside. The temperature-activated switch is a great idea, however not sure if it's worth working through that rather than just mounting to the inside.
_________________
Brandon
'83.5 Westfalia "Jo Ann" EJ22e w/Peloquin
DM me on IG for quicker responses @brandon.r2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
T3TRIS
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2017
Posts: 298
Location: Portland, OR
T3TRIS is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

Agreed, the BMS can handle the cold temperature threshold, especially since having a temperature sensor NOT on the cells themselves isnít very useful. This is definitely a drawback on the Redarc charger that I wasnít aware of when getting ours. I was actually thinking of relocating our charger to the outside somewhere, but now am rethinking because of that internal temperature sensor (not the durability of the charger though).
Changing the chargerís battery profile could be a good solution though (albeit not ideal of course). Iím thinking a normally-closed temperature switch. Both wires can be bridged by that temperature activated switch that would be powered by a key-in signal. The sensor would be taped to the outside of the charger. When the temperature is low, the switch is open and the chargerís in AGM mode. As soon as the chargerís temp climbs above a set temperature, the switch closes and the charger profile becomes lithium again. If the switch looses power, itís normally closed and the charging profile remains lithium.
The question is: does switching profiles while charging damage the charger?
_________________
Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16051
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

^^^^ But you have a BMS which will prevent charging when below the lower set temp limit.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Howesight
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3174
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Howesight is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

Even though the Redarc DC-DC chargers are rugged and have high build quality, I still would not want mine subjected to the elements outside of the vehicle - - like slush, mud, salt, etc.

My install location is very close to the location of my LiFePo4 battery - - by design. When camping in cold weather, I always use my CDH and if ambient temps are really cold, I leave the door open on the cabinet where my LiFePo4 battery lives. That keeps it well above freezing.

I realize that if our rig were not a spoiled garage queen, I might have times when the battery and the Redarc could get below freezing temps. If so, I would run the engine and use the factory heater until the battery got up over freezing temps. The risk I prefer to avoid is accidentally charging the LiFePo4 when it is below 32F degrees.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MsTaboo
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 3955
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
MsTaboo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

revolution337 wrote:
Thanks for the update, that was a quick response on their end! It's good to know that at least one has the ability to safely bypass the lithium mode if required.

Maybe this helps give them feedback for future product model updates.


Yeah, they need to address this for those who have self-heating LiFePO4 batteries.
If the DC-DC charger won't allow any current to the battery when cold the self-heating unit won't have the juice to heat the battery before charging can start.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Unite Against Book Bans.
Support democracy, help defend Ukraine against totalitarianism!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
revolution337
Samba Member


Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 367
Location: Pennsylvania
revolution337 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

Thanks for the update, that was a quick response on their end! It's good to know that at least one has the ability to safely bypass the lithium mode if required.

Maybe this helps give them feedback for future product model updates.
_________________
1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
-Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3589
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

Quote:
Hello Brandon,

Thank you for your inquiry and continued loyal support of our products, I hope this reply sees you as having had a great weekend so far and looking forward to your week aheadÖ

My name is ----, Iím the International Training and Development Manager here at REDARC and Iím an integral part of our North American Customer Support Team.

Iíve attached here a copy of the BCDC1250D manual for your reference, check out page 11 as this illustrates a typical wiring diagram to help better explain the installation and application process.

BCDC1250D Dual Input 50A In-vehicle DC Battery Charger - REDARC (redarcelectronics.com)

Our Lithium profile is not able to be disabled in any way, this has a minimum charging threshold of 0įC (32įF)

In some circumstances, we have advised customers if their battery allows it, switching the charging profile to ĎA/AGMí allows charging temperatures as low as -20įC (-4įF)

This proves successful when traveling during the colder season, as long as your battery (BMS) allows it, it should be noted alsoÖ when using the ĎA/AGMí profile for a lithium battery, the recovery is likely to be ~90%

Please be assured, selecting the AGM setting will not damage the lithium battery in the slightest, however, you might find it going to float a little earlier than normal, resulting in a maximum charge of ~90% SOC.

Selecting this profile when traveling during these temperature extremes, also helps protect the battery by not saturating the lithium cells to 100%... 😉

It should also be noted, it is industry standard that lithium batteries should not be charged at temperatures below 0įC (32įF), however, if the battery specifications allow this, then Iím confident our solution above will provide the charging performance requiredÖ

This too could be achieved by simply placing a switch between the orange and green wires of a BCDC1250D i.e. on for LI profile and off for A profileÖ

I would however strongly suggest, given your environment and battery specs, youíd likely be better served by placing the BCDC1250D inside the cab also?

Thanks again Brandon, for many more tips and diagrams, please be sure to reach out to me directlyÖ Iím here to help!

Keep well, travel safe and have a great night!

Best regards,


Well it looks like it is going in the cab. I was hoping to save some interior space by mounting it externally...I guess not now.
_________________
Brandon
'83.5 Westfalia "Jo Ann" EJ22e w/Peloquin
DM me on IG for quicker responses @brandon.r2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tikiman71
Samba Member


Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 74
Location: San Diego
tikiman71 is online now 

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

I installed my Redarc BCDC1240 behind the driverís seat, so it would be closest to my under-seat 135ah battery and provide access to the unitís indicator lights. That said, itís worked flawlessly for 2 years and never gave me a reason to look, other than to say hi. I also like being able to reach back and check its heat output, which is never more than warm to the touch. It is mounted to the Westy laminate cabinet, but elevated with washers for airflow.

It typically charges in excess of 40 amps while underway, usually around 42-43. This is from my "stock" EJ22 95 amp alternator which will be upgraded when I have a chance.

My battery seldom goes below 70%, so the Redarc does not spend much time charging and getting hot. I could see this being a potential issue if one has a deeply discharged battery. The system has been completely set and forget since installing, and Iím considering getting rid of my solar panel at this point, as it contributes very little to the overall system.

Good to know about the temp control revision. I will need to check to see if my unit has it since I have been relying on the Overkill BMS to handle temp restrictions. Iíve only had it to 40 degrees F so far.

Good luck with your system. I enjoy your posts. Cheers!
_________________
1987 Westfalia GL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
revolution337
Samba Member


Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 367
Location: Pennsylvania
revolution337 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
Also - it appears you have the 25amp model mounted inside on wood. Have you experienced any thermal throttling? With the 50amp model I imagine I would at minimum need to mount it to metal.


I have not yet noticed any thermal throttling due to excessive heat. When my battery has been heavily discharged, and the unit puts out the full 25 amps for several hours, it does get noticeably hot. Never enough to back down the current, though. I imagine with the 50 amp version, you would want as much cooling capability as possible.

I want to say that I recall reading somewhere that the only way to bypass the low temp charging projection is to wire in a manual override switch that changes the battery mode from lithium to something else, like AGM (the low temp protection is only active in lithium mode) temporarily until the BCDC warms up enough. But that is a less than desirable solution for most.

I'm curious to hear the response from Redarc regarding the low temp charging protection. Please let us know what you hear from them.
_________________
1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
-Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3589
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Externally mounting the Redarc DC-DC Reply with quote

revolution337 wrote:

From Redarcs website:

Quote:
As of December 2019, there are two features that have been added into the BCDC Dual Input range.

The BCDC will not attempt to charge a Lithium (LiFePO4) battery if the ambient temperature is below 0įC/32įF (note LiFePO4 charging profile only). This feature is designed to help protect your Lithium battery and maximize its service life.


Well, that pretty much ends this thread. Bummer - as the BMS should be in charge of controlling the charge. I messaged Redarc asking if this feature can be disabled.

Thanks for that info.
_________________
Brandon
'83.5 Westfalia "Jo Ann" EJ22e w/Peloquin
DM me on IG for quicker responses @brandon.r2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.