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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10250
Location: N. Idaho
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 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:00 am Post subject: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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So, I have two vehicles we routinely use for overland travel - the Vanagon and our triple locked LandCruiser wagon. For years, I've used a simple system to provide house power which I move from vehicle to vehicle as needed. It's an RV deep cycle battery, an inverter plugged into it, and a power cord also plugged into the battery for a cigarette lighter type outlet.
I've just upped my game for backcountry access with a new state of the art battery powered chainsaw and began contemplating how I'd charge it in the field. I'd want the inverter connected to the underhood battery when it's running to handle that larger load.
So, any ideas on a simple system to accomplish this. I'm thinking it would for the first time connect my house battery to the alternator, and an upgraded inverter and I guess I'd need a simple charge manager. For guidance, I'm not interested in a massive system like some of you guys have with super pricey state of the art charge managers, etc. I'm envisioning a piece of plywood with the inverter bolted to it, and also the board would have a cord winding system where I can carry it to the other vehicle, unwind cords to connect with quality underhood battery alligator clips, etc.
No interest in solar, as we live up north and some of our trips are winter where solar is paltry.
Thanks!!!!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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djkeev
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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What’s the voltage on the chainsaw? It’s best to avoid voltage conversion if you can as it is lossy.
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4789
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| What’s the voltage on the chainsaw? It’s best to avoid voltage conversion if you can as it is lossy. |
something like an eGO chainsaw is running around 52vdc and use a special charger for the lithium battery so you really do need to use the 120v charger.
i can measure the watts draw on my wife's chainsaw charger, it might be somewhat high because the charger is fan cooled and recharges a 5AH/52vdc battery fairly quickly. that said, maybe we are talking 300-500 watts. easily handled by a $200 inverter with some battery cable clips. pop the hood, clamp it on and run the engine while drawing the load. easy, low tech, completely portable.
i brought the saw on a recent camping trip... it was great for gathering downed firewood without irking other campers. didn't need a recharge for 2 nights of excessively large campfires using downed wood that was too big for the typical hunter-gatherers of stick sized campfire wood.
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do.dah
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Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 447
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| I have a decent inverter wired to my starter battery. I also carry along a fairly large jump pack with an integrated 120vac, 200w power supply that SLOWLY charges my saw. |
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outcaststudios
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Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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would a blue seas acr 7610/11 work for this?
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22665
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| What’s the voltage on the chainsaw? It’s best to avoid voltage conversion if you can as it is lossy. |
something like an eGO chainsaw is running around 52vdc and use a special charger for the lithium battery so you really do need to use the 120v charger.
i can measure the watts draw on my wife's chainsaw charger, it might be somewhat high because the charger is fan cooled and recharges a 5AH/52vdc battery fairly quickly. that said, maybe we are talking 300-500 watts. easily handled by a $200 inverter with some battery cable clips. pop the hood, clamp it on and run the engine while drawing the load. easy, low tech, completely portable.
i brought the saw on a recent camping trip... it was great for gathering downed firewood without irking other campers. didn't need a recharge for 2 nights of excessively large campfires using downed wood that was too big for the typical hunter-gatherers of stick sized campfire wood. |
The 16 inch EgO uses
| Quote: |
| Up to 130 cuts on a 4x4 with the recommended 56V 2.5Ah ARC |
That’s about 125 watt hours so 3 charges would take a Group 24 battery to the 50% mark, sounds doable
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
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Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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yahp, 56 volts i guess. my wife has the big 5AH battery on her saw, i can't imagine Doug has anything less <grin>.
so might be stuck with idling the vehicle for an hour plus to charge it, no problem for the LandCruiser, Vanagon ain't gonna be happy.
i poo poo'd these saws for a while but they can cut a large amount of wood on a charge. sure, don't have the chainspeed nor power of a gas saw but instantly ready to go, quiet, and actually cut well. and super nice to bring camping.
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60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9609
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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Ha!
Chainsaws? Cutting a whole truckload of wood?
8 ft bed with high racks?
No, probably not.
Probably just enough wood for a couple campfires.
Decadent winter campfires.
Maybe a tree down over the road.
am i right?
Heres a suggestion. Don’t even _talk_ about your recharging plan until you’ve actually come home with less than a 3/4 charge.
And a rule: you’re not allowed to $$pend even one dime until you’ve come home from a trip with less than 1/2 charge.
There that should take care of it.
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 447
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
Ha!
Chainsaws? Cutting a whole truckload of wood?
8 ft bed with high racks?
No, probably not.
Probably just enough wood for a couple campfires.
Decadent winter campfires.
Maybe a tree down over the road.
am i right?
Heres a suggestion. Don’t even _talk_ about your recharging plan until you’ve actually come home with less than a 3/4 charge.
And a rule: you’re not allowed to $$pend even one dime until you’ve come home from a trip with less than 1/2 charge.
There that should take care of it. |
Weeell,, not exactly sure what you're trying to get across,,, but, I'll take a swing.
I was very much against electric saws. I LOVE my stihl's, the smell of 2 stroke, and my older climber saw is just a part of my anatomy.
I've used my electric to drop and buck up a coupla smaller trees. Though not firewood,, it filled up an NPR yard truck. Using 2 batteries.
The tech for batt operated stuff is purty decent I'd say. Doesn't spin as fast as gas, but quiet, I miss the smell of 2 stroke, no having to mix.
Come over to the dark side... |
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syncro2x
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2009
Posts: 110
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| I tried to charge my e bike with a battery pack that was capable of powering a small boat motor. My e bike sucked it dry in just over an hour, light was flashing on the battery pack, which I had never seen before. Battery pack has been weaker ever since. |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10250
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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Sorry, so it's the Echo DCS5000 56V 18" blade version with the 5ah battery. I anticipate using it for firewood and to clear a trail down in my way. I have not unboxed it, and am not going to do so until a buddy of mine has time to show me how to use a chainsaw safely.
Since I enjoy watching animals, I like the low noise level of the battery saw compared to a chainsaw being heard miles away by every animal in the valley. As it will also live inside my van or SUV (vs sitting in a pickup bed), only electric for me as I don't want my sleeping quarters to smell like 2 cycle oil.
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Sodo
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Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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Sorry if this was too veiled.
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| I've just upped my game for backcountry access with a new state of the art battery powered chainsaw and began contemplating how I'd charge it in the field. I'd want the inverter connected to the underhood battery when it's running to handle that larger load. |
I meant don't task your "battery system' to charge the chainsaw battery.
You can cut all the wood you need with a fraction of the battery that was full-charged at home. And you probably have two of them?
If you are going to buy a battery system for camping, list some other things you need it for.
The chainsaw is not one of them.
Electric blanket?
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| I have not unboxed it, and am not going to do so until a buddy of mine has time to show me how to use a chainsaw safely. |
Learning on YouTube?
Chaps, goggles, helmet, steel-toe boots, CHECK!
OK all dolled up?
Now lets get that campfire wood cut.
It will take you longer to put all the Youtube stuff away.
Chain speed is slower because the battery saw has so much torque.
For that reason it's much safer than a gas saw.
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| I'm envisioning a piece of plywood with the inverter bolted to it, and also the board would have a cord winding system where I can carry it to the other vehicle, unwind cords to connect with quality underhood battery alligator clips, etc |
Plug in with "SAE" connector. You can put "SAE" outlets on each vehicle.
Order pigtails to make adapters, like this one to a cig-lighter socket.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10250
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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I use the current ad hoc setup described above just for powering cell and laptop chargers, and a fan for hot summer nights. And now I'd like to be able to charge the battery in a pinch.
You're right it will handle a lot of cutting, but it just feels "right" to be in a position to charge the saw in the event a LOT of trees are down, you know? We often travel solo, and in remote areas, so if I'm spending a lot of time cutting my way in, I don't want to be nervous I'll get to a point where I have to choose to turn back, or risk running out of power. Being able to charge it between wind fallen trees, (running engine) or in a pinch drain the house battery to charge it is a meaningful option at that point.
In future, I don't really plan adding any future electrical needs. All reading lights and interior lights are AA powered magnetic stick ups or rechargeable headlamps.
So, the addition of the chainsaw is the only impetus to have an upgraded charging system. I forgot to mention we also have a cuddy cabin powerboat which we camp on islands in, and I'll use this portable system on it also, as the chainsaw will be a welcome ally for firewood prep there also. Once again, being able to charge the saw during the day while water skiing, or running a few hours down the lake would be ideal..
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9609
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| You're right it will handle a lot of cutting, but it just feels "right" to be in a position to charge the saw in the event a LOT of trees are down, you know? We often travel solo, and in remote areas, so if I'm spending a lot of time cutting my way in, I don't want to be nervous I'll get to a point where I have to choose to turn back, or risk running out of power. Being able to charge it between wind fallen trees, (running engine) or in a pinch drain the house battery to charge it is a meaningful option at that point. |
It doesn't sound like you have had to cut your way in or out before. Where is this concern coming from?
One tree down?
You can cut so many trees with one battery you will be draggin' your butt.
Of course it depends how big they are.
You can cut a lot of 12" trees, and less 18" trees of course.
My next best advice is to "learn" your new saw by just cutting firewood.
Maybe cut for a friend who burns wood at his house.
Run your batteri down and see if you still have enough energy "in you" to cut any more wood.
I think you will conclude that if you leave on a trip with a charged battery there's no way you will need to re-charge.
My Makita chainsaw has 36vx5Ah=180Wh and that's a lot. Yours has 280Wh.
For $155 you can buy another battery, it's a sensible next step and it's simple. It doubles your capacity to 560Wh.
$330 (?) for that Echo chainsaw is good money spent.
You don't even know how good yet.
Go learn your saw first before spending even $155.
The Echo 12" looks wickeder.
Much smaller for carrying in a vehicle (or climbing).
But $499....it must be a pro saw.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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You guys are totally on point here. An extra battery at $155 is the solution that makes the tool that much more useful , and you can hold off buying it until you know that you need it. I suspect a full charge before a trip will do the deed.
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djkeev
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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Yep, I agree ^^ I was about to say "get a 2nd Battery".
My problem with replacing gasoline or 120v tools with battery replacements is the longevity of the investment.
I have gas yard tools and electric power tools decades old that still work as well as the day I purchased them.
I also have "outdated" battery tools that were once the cutting edge of technology but today are basically trash,
The batteries won't hold a charge or lack power and deplete quickly. For many of them, batteries are no longer available or just not worth the investment.
I have a lot of 18v Dewalt tools. But they quickly gave way to 20v Dewalt tools.
I have the basics in 20v but some of the tools I have in 18v I've no interest in upgrading. DeWalt already is introducing a "better" power system. Why bother buying anything? It will be out of date in a few short years.
If I was younger, maybe I'd jump in but now? I'll drag an extension cord or an air compressor around as needed.
My cordless tools of yesterday are old Makitas, old Ryobi's etc. all are long gone as the power supplies died.
Yet my aged 120v Mikwaukee work horses continue to reliably do the jobs for which they were designed.
IMHO ....... There is absolutely no long term value in buying electric tools.
They are convenient for sure, that is why I have them. But my expectations are low for them.
Dave
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jimf909 
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Joined: April 03, 2014
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Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
I use the current ad hoc setup described above just for powering cell and laptop chargers, and a fan for hot summer nights. And now I'd like to be able to charge the battery in a pinch.
You're right it will handle a lot of cutting, but it just feels "right" to be in a position to charge the saw in the event a LOT of trees are down, you know? We often travel solo, and in remote areas, so if I'm spending a lot of time cutting my way in, I don't want to be nervous I'll get to a point where I have to choose to turn back, or risk running out of power. Being able to charge it between wind fallen trees, (running engine) or in a pinch drain the house battery to charge it is a meaningful option at that point.
In future, I don't really plan adding any future electrical needs. All reading lights and interior lights are AA powered magnetic stick ups or rechargeable headlamps.
So, the addition of the chainsaw is the only impetus to have an upgraded charging system. I forgot to mention we also have a cuddy cabin powerboat which we camp on islands in, and I'll use this portable system on it also, as the chainsaw will be a welcome ally for firewood prep there also. Once again, being able to charge the saw during the day while water skiing, or running a few hours down the lake would be ideal.. |
Doug, I get it. You bought a new tool and it would stink if it wasn't available when the 10th downed tree was blocking your path on a little used road in the spring when you're the first one down the road. It seems like there are many more trees falling across the roads up here. The snowmobile trail groomer mentioned it last winter and I had four trees down in 1 1/2 miles after the windstorm a couple of months ago.
1) It'll probably take more than 10 downed trees to stop your chainsaw, the four I mention above we're 4" - 6" in diameter, as Sodo mentions, the battery will be at least 75% or more after clearing 10 of those.
2) The least expensive path is a second battery for the chainsaw but that doesn't fully solve your portability problems and is less than half the fun of other solutions.
3) djkeev's recommendation is solving the problem you have for a lot of folks nowadays. A single box with a battery, inverter, and a nice handle to carry down the dock to the boat. My guess is that you could assemble these pieces into a box (pelican box, samsonite suitcase, homemade plywood box, etc.) and solve your multiple-vehicle problem pretty easily. The SAE outlet that Sodo describers with aligator clips that attach to the mother vehicle's battery would allow you to charge your power center and then charge the chainsaw battery.
Proof: regarding the 5 ah battery capability, these rounds, and countless others were cut (up here in the 7B  ) using the two Ego chainsaws on the bed of the truck with 5ah batteries. You can see that one of the batteries is at the charging station. I don't have the number of cuts made on a single battery charge but it's many 18" - 24" rounds and many more 6" - 18" rounds.
Not filled to Sodo's specs, but a friend loaned a trailer and the travel distance is short so we didn't have to be too neat...
Loading the trailer. All the rounds were cut with the Ego chainsaws but the missing science you need is how many cuts were made on a single charge.
Winter warmth. Thank you, battery operated chainsaws.
Of course, keeping the chain sharp will dramatically reduce load on the battery.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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djkeev
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Sodo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for a dual battery system I can move to other car? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Dougs concern about being able to recharge in the field is a very real concern. |
Of course.
To cut a full cord of wood, to fill a truck, heat a home etc (like jimf909 pics show so well).
you'd want a spare battery (10 years ago).
If you were 20 years younger, or if your son will put down the phone, maybe 2 spare batteries.
But that's discussing cutting cordwood, an entirely different subject
.... that's still in the realm of gasoline, actually.
The reason 'charging on the road' is downplayed here is because the 280Wh capacity is so far beyond the needs of camping/season/travel safety.
And because Doug has reiterated that it's the focus of his inquiry.
For camping/season/travel safety etc,
the "280Wh report"
which I might add,
is a highly advised training step anyway,
will provide all the answers.
You can bring an inverter, and the Echo charger, so you already HAVE everything you need.
You won't need it.
But you DO have it all.
As one wise man advised, "trust- but verify".
For camping/season/travel safety:
You will need about 10 Wh for your campfire wood.
If you ever come home with 75% remaining you'll be saying '"boy am I glad we brought that saw, but....".
All the other times (like 10:1) you will be saying "that thing's kinda big for what we need, do you think we should we pack it this time?"
Most likely the "big 25% battery event" will occur years later, long after you've gotten tired of bringing the saw.
I've been doing this for awhile.
I have loads of Makita batteries, but they are ALL 6 years old.
I bought this Makita XCU06 because......drumroll.....eJimmi used my slightly larger Makita XCU02 saw, and what did eJimmi do?
eJimmi bought the next size smaller Makita XCU06 to carry in his (huge) rig.
So I bought a little XCU06 too.
Doug knows whether eJimmi would 'mess around' or not..... 
There can be no doubt eJimmi carries a charger though.
Maybe Jimmi can regale us with how many times he's needed to charge on the road.
Jimmi goes out for weeks, though..... and he's ALWAYS looking for trouble.... so maybe not a realistic comparison.
18" Black & Decker 120v comparison for size.
The Echo DCS5000 56V 18" is prob similar in size.
I've used this Makita XCU06 a few times to cut firewood for campfires.
It was great!
I don't think the amount of battery capacity used even showed (returning home with ~100%.)
OK here's my BEST advice I can offer.
If that Echo DCS5000 56V 18" is in the box, and returnable, do so.
Unless you need it at home. It's a great value for around the home.
If it's duty is "vehicle", get a much smaller saw.
That 18" will suffer DJkeev's predicted demise, which is, it will be outdated without even being used.
If you haven't used it in 4 years, and now the battery is 4 years old un-used... are you going to spend $155 for a new battery?
Echo is good stuff. But $330 now, and $155 in 4 years costs as much as the $499 DCS-2500T 12"
which would be a beast, and much more packable for vehicle use.
Except don't buy a pro-saw, unless you will truly appreciate the pro unit tool.
Get a smaller weekend warrior saw for the vehicle.
Something like that XCU06.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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