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99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash
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FJBen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Ok, so new to us Eurovan and I made a rookie mistake. Went to spray off the engine during a wash, less than 5 seconds just a quick spray. mistake.

Anyways, now I'm fighting the flashing CEL and running on 4 cylinders.

I hooked up VCDS and I get:

17647 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32)
P1239 - 35-00 Open Circuit

17649 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 5 (N83)
P1241 - 35-00 - Open Circuit



So this has been over a day and a half. It's been in the 90's here for temps.

Here's what I've done:
Cleared codes
blown/vacuum out engine bay
pulled intake tube/air
checked plug wires
pulled coil
wiggled wires around looking for breaks


Basically nothing changed, instant error codes on those 2 cylinders.

As for the van, its semi-famous here. It's the Cave-van Blu.0 Since it was sold, it only has less than 5,000 miles on it from when Cole had it.

So in the past 4kish miles
coil, plugs, plug wires, fuel injectors, all new intake gaskets

I talked with Cole a few weeks ago and he said basically everything but the injector harness was upgraded to fix a random mis-fire issue.




So basically 2 days ago, I lightly sprayed the engine for less than 5 seconds and now I'm paying the price lol. My next though is to check continuity on the injector harness, trying to do everything without having to pull than dang intake plenum off.
How do you check continuity through that harness? Meter on ohms, probe the connecter, but I can't find where to put the leads. I believe they share 1 hot, and each has a ground.

Any other thoughts?

thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Pulled all wires and plugs to check for water?
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FJBen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Pulled all wires and plugs to check for water?


I didn't pull the plugs. Just wires on 3 and didn't see any water. I suppose I should pull the spark plug and make sure there isn't moisture.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

If itís running rough donít put too much stick in an assigned cylinder miss. It can easily assign miss to the wrong cylinder.

Pull all five and get everything dry
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
If itís running rough donít put too much stick in an assigned cylinder miss. It can easily assign miss to the wrong cylinder.

Pull all five and get everything dry


thanks, well all 6, Smile

every time I clear it comes back to those 2 cylinders. Ill get it pulled and dried
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Ooops, VR6 like the cool kids.

Very Happy

I think thatís coil on plug too? Move some coils around for giggles.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Ooops, VR6 like the cool kids.

Very Happy

I think thatís coil on plug too? Move some coils around for giggles.



Itís a 12v so just one coil pack.
I replaced plugs, all dry. Same error.

I tested the injector harness connection and could only ohm 4 of them which makes sense. Next step I guess is to pull the upper intake plenum.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

So after pulling the intake, what a pain. I got everything out to test wiring and injectors.

The injectors should only have 5,000 miles at most on them.


Here are the readings:

1 - 14.1
2 - 14.1
3 - 6.3 megohm
4 - 14.1
5 - open
6 - 14.1

Well that seems to solve the mystery if I have them labeled right. The 2 without the gloves are the ones I'm calling 3 and 5.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


which would seem to be right according to this graphic.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/url]


So thats not what I was expecting at all with "new" injectors. Why would a wash cause that?

Good source for injectors? Replace all?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Not sure anyone is paying attention anymore Laughing

but here is what I found.

5 of the injectors are "Mostplus" Brand, or cheap Chinese injectors. 2 of those have failed.
1 is an OEM Marelli injector.


I talked with a shop that rebuilds injectors and have great luck saving injectors and they said don't even bother with those cheap ones. Junk. They also said those Marelli are pretty much junk too but at least you can rebuild them.

So the options aren't great, but I'm going to have to find 3 used injectors, or buy 3 more new ones at $100 a piece.


That or swap the AHU from my 97 5 Spd jetta and be done.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Interesting and impressively quick work on accessing and tracking down the injector issue. Is there any maintenance procedure that might preserve life the original injectors?

Weíve had our Ď99 EVC for about 20 years. No obvious injector issues yet, but it would be nice to avoid intake removal whenever possible.

Regards,

Joe M in WV
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

JMenacker wrote:
Interesting and impressively quick work on accessing and tracking down the injector issue. Is there any maintenance procedure that might preserve life the original injectors?

Weíve had our Ď99 EVC for about 20 years. No obvious injector issues yet, but it would be nice to avoid intake removal whenever possible.

Regards,

Joe M in WV


Thanks Joe,

It's not a terrible job taking the intake off, however it's not one I would want to do regularly. I suspect the original injectors were replaced, still was having misfire then from what I understand another shop worked on it and replaced plugs/wires/injectors again. So I'm not sure who put the cheap injectors in but they look like crap for only having less than $5k. Spend the money on good parts I suppose.

I'm hoping to get at lots of trouble free miles out of these.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Still watching, just not able to help much, apologies
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Still watching, just not able to help much, apologies


No worries at all.

Just ordered 3 more injectors. going to have the flow tested and balanced before I put them in.


Here is a photos of the Chinese ones next to an OEM Marelli. Marelli on the right.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




you can see they aren't the same size or quality or specs. Connecters aren't in the same spots. The mesh screens are also torn or non-existent on most of them. this one has the best screen and it has a hole in it.

Stay away from these injectors lol, junk.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

not much to update. Ordered 5 new Marelli injectors, having the 6th tested/checked rebuilt.

Hopefully next week I can put this thing back together.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Injectors on their way, hopefully today.


The injector shop checked the spray pattern on the new Marelli's and said they are great, also the 1 used injector was good as well. Will have a report from the shop once they sho up.


The injector harness tested ok. No Open line, no continuity issues.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Alright, success.

I received the injectors back from the injector place. Got everything installed and seems to run good other than a high idle. Rolling Eyes

reports/specs on the new injectors were all good.

still has a tiny stumble on idle but runs good.




recap: new injectors fixed it. Don't buy cheap injectors.

now on to the list of other VW fun fixes:
door locks
torn cv boot
cruise control
airbag clock spring
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Awesome

Im still on my first set at 200k - vr6 24v

But still purrs as much as 200k can
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Awesome

Im still on my first set at 200k - vr6 24v

But still purrs as much as 200k can


Nice, yeah the 12V Marelli don't have a great reputation. Hopefully I won't have to mess with this for awhile
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

Thought I would update.


Fixed the bad cv axle then upon starting, missing and not running right. Low power Rolling Eyes feels like a bad miss. Ugh. Random misfire and misfire on cylinder 1.

Spark plug wire was a little loose. Cleared code on vag-com and same
Thing. Bad missing no power. How the heck does a vehicle go from working to not working sitting still and not used for 2 weeks. Oh yeah , VW.

So the thing I havenít changed is the coil, even though Iíve been told itís been changed. Itís a Delphi unit so not OEM.

Well Iím not spending $300 for it to fail again. I ran to the junkyard and grabbed a ford coil for $25. Going to work on this swap tonight and hopefully fixed this issue. This vanÖ
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan Injector open circuit after wash Reply with quote

My understanding is that the 12v VR6 coils are prone to cracks in the coil pack housing and misfires are common when humidity is high. This did seem to be the case with our Ď99 EVC.
SDEuroparts still offers a Bremi replacement for less than $200 new, which has been working fine for us past two years.
https://europarts-sd.com/ignitioncoilpack1997-2000.asp

Ford junkyard fix is obviously cheaper and perhaps may last longer, but the original coil pack worked well for over 20 years in our T4.

Joe M in WV
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