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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17035
Location: Left coast, Canada
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 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| H2OSB wrote: |
| .... what I'd like to know is if swapping out the differential is something the typical shade tree mechanic can do? Are there any VW special tools required or is set up complicated? |
Swapping a diff shouldn't be too hard. No special tools needed.
The pinion depth is unchanged, so the assumption is that it will be correct.
You will have to figure out a way to measure backlash.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17035
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:55 am Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| Bad bug wrote: |
| How much power can the 4 spider 10/15 and the 9/14 super diffs take. |
Depends on the nut behind the wheel.
When I was much younger, I wasn't able to break a 10/15 stock diff.
Tooth counts are 11/17 for both IRS and Swing up to 72. After then, it was 10/15 for both, except Brazilian gearboxes.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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H2OSB
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013
Posts: 1076
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| modok wrote: |
| Does the shade tree mechanic understand bearing preload and gear backlash? |
Not really..but YouTube does. Just kidding, it sounded funny(to me..to me).
I've read a lot on the subject over the years, but never actually dug my hands in. I just wanted to make sure there were no special jigs or measuring devices required.
Thanks
H2OSB
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(o\_i_/o) Some people should not work on engines or other machinery.
Sorry to say that you are one of them. Actually no offence intended. ~ Boolean |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5134
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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I have a IRS super diff 10/15 in my turbo bug holding up great 5 seasons of abuse  Easy swap ,,reuse the side cover on the Zigzag 
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 25689
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| Does the shade tree mechanic understand bearing preload and gear backlash? |
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H2OSB
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013
Posts: 1076
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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I hope no one considers this a derailment, but I cannot find the answer.
I am CONTEMPLATING purchasing a SuperDiff for my 1979 zigzag case gearbox into my '74 Super. Arguements aside as to necessity, what I'd like to know is if swapping out the differential is something the typical shade tree mechanic can do? Are there any VW special tools required or is set up complicated?
H2OSB
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(o\_i_/o) Some people should not work on engines or other machinery.
Sorry to say that you are one of them. Actually no offence intended. ~ Boolean |
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Bad bug
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1105
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| How much power can the 4 spider 10/15 and the 9/14 super diffs take. |
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RickS
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Speonk, NY
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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Here is what came in a Berg kit.
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8296
Location: PNW
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4847
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| RickS wrote: |
| AlteWagen wrote: |
| RickS wrote: |
A super diff and a beef-a-diff are not the same. |
That was the whole point of my post. I added pictures to try to make it as simple as possible, sorry if I made it more confusing. |
That’s not how I read what you wrote, but I get it. |
You did kind of add to the confusion a little.
Your bottom pic labeled Beef a Diff looks like it’s actually a Super Diff. A Beef a Diff was a block with a hole for the stock cross shaft with two stub shafts made into it with castle nuts on each end of the shafts. The idea was to install the part onto the stock spider gear cross shaft, then ad two extra gears to the stub shafts, then snug the castle nuts to adjust the mesh of the two extra spider gears to the side gears. A Beef a Diff was made to be used in the stock VW open differential with the two extra gears literally floating in the large opening of the stock casting, while a Super Diff has a full surround casting. Here’s a pic of two Beef a Diff sections to be installed in a stock diff casting. This pic is of two assemblies, but only one at a time is used.
And there shouldn’t be any issue daily driving a Super Diff. Although I don’t drive many miles anymore, I’ve easily driven two separate Beetles IRS/Swing 75k+ miles with no problems., |
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RickS
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Speonk, NY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
| RickS wrote: |
A super diff and a beef-a-diff are not the same. |
That was the whole point of my post. I added pictures to try to make it as simple as possible, sorry if I made it more confusing. |
That’s not how I read what you wrote, but I get it. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8296
Location: PNW
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RickS
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Speonk, NY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
I think there are two different part groups that are being discussed
-Gear carrier/differential housing
-Spider gear assembly
The common term 'super diff' refers to a HD gear carrier which is where the ring gear bolts to and houses the spider gear assembly. This HD casting if being used on the street needs to be drilled so there is proper oil flow over the spider gears.
Here is a comparison pic. Note how open the stock carrier is which allows the needed splash oiling on the spider gears.
Super diff shown with oiling mods
The spider gear assembly in stock form only uses two spider gears. The 4 spider gear assembly or more commonly known as the 'beef a diff' helps spread the load to more gear teeth compared to stock set up. While this 4 spider setup is the usual upgrade when installing a HD gear carrier it can also be used in the factory carrier for an upgrade as well.
Stock 2 gear setup (swing shown)
Beef a diff
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A super diff and a beef-a-diff are not the same. A beef-a-diff adds 2 extra spider gears but is supported by the original shaft. The super diff has the gears supported by the differential. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8296
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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I think there are two different part groups that are being discussed
-Gear carrier/differential housing
-Spider gear assembly
The common term 'super diff' refers to a HD gear carrier which is where the ring gear bolts to and houses the spider gear assembly. This HD casting if being used on the street needs to be drilled so there is proper oil flow over the spider gears.
Here is a comparison pic. Note how open the stock carrier is which allows the needed splash oiling on the spider gears.
Super diff shown with oiling mods
The spider gear assembly in stock form only uses two spider gears. The 4 spider gear assembly or more commonly known as the 'beef a diff' helps spread the load to more gear teeth compared to stock set up. While this 4 spider setup is the usual upgrade when installing a HD gear carrier it can also be used in the factory carrier for an upgrade as well.
Stock 2 gear setup (swing shown)
Beef a diff
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 6838
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
A super diff won’t drive any different than a regular 2-spider diff.
Unless it’s a cheap POS and breaks, locking things up,
(Like a lot are nowadays, especially swing axle).
It’s not a TBD or LSD or spool…
Late Vanagons came stock with a 4-spider a.k.a. “Super” diff. |
A Super Diff is still an "open" diff. It just spreads the load across 3 spider gears instead of just 2. |
Ya,
I hear ya!
Supposed to be 4 spiders,
But with the quality of most,
One’s just along for the ride..!
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 74674
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| Clatter wrote: |
A super diff won’t drive any different than a regular 2-spider diff.
Unless it’s a cheap POS and breaks, locking things up,
(Like a lot are nowadays, especially swing axle).
It’s not a TBD or LSD or spool…
Late Vanagons came stock with a 4-spider a.k.a. “Super” diff. |
A Super Diff is still an "open" diff. It just spreads the load across 3 spider gears instead of just 2.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."
Groucho Marx |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 6838
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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A super diff won’t drive any different than a regular 2-spider diff.
Unless it’s a cheap POS and breaks, locking things up,
(Like a lot are nowadays, especially swing axle).
It’s not a TBD or LSD or spool…
Late Vanagons came stock with a 4-spider a.k.a. “Super” diff.
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 6838
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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| madmike wrote: |
| Glenn has a Factory HD Aluminium cover, Just as strong as some aftermarket ones |
Doesn’t it have less strength now that it’s been machined down like that?
That’s done for weight savings, or maybe looks? 
I remember the old Transform shop used to do that…
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RickS
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Speonk, NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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That Aluminum Super Diff is made by Dave Folts. It is really nice, uses 091 side and spider gears. Call Dave directly if you want one. I bought one from him last month for SIGNIFICANTLY LESS money then Weddle charges. The only issue is Weddle is out of stock on the HD spider gears for it. I called last week for an update and they told me they expected them last week, so should be soon. |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5134
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Superdiff in a daily driver. |
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Glenn has a Factory HD Aluminium cover, Just as strong as some aftermarket ones
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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