My Thirteen Inch Oddball Steelies Project

[Stock Steve]

Some background and starting off with Samba seller's images...

A couple of months back I ran across Samba seller from Switzerland Nicolas Gobet's ad for some used oddball steel wheels, 13" diameter by 4" wide, AND 4x130 bolt pattern, and started thinking about possibilities... I eventually bought them, and they arrived at my house in early October 2022. I would like to document what I've learned about them, and what I'm doing with them, which, as of this writing (early December 2022), is still very much an unfinished story. I am happy to have downloaded and saved Nicolas' original images from his Samba ad, and am presenting them as a start to a new thread in the "Custom Wheel/Tires" section of the Forum, and will add info and updates as I am able. For now, a HUGE thank you to Nocolas Gobet (ngobet @ TheSamba) for the excellent international transaction, fantastic packaging job, and of course, very cool goods!

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
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[ubercrap]

I can't see the markings, but several mfgs. used 4x130 I think, like Lancia, Fiat, Maserati, Skoda and maybe others.
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'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan

[Stock Steve]

[Stock Steve]

Thirteen Inch Oddball Steelies - Unpackaging Day... Nicolas' shipping arrangements for these wheels were first-rate, as was his packaging job--I can't thank him enough. They were at Customs in New York for a week or two, but I was always able to dial up tracking updates, so I knew things were going as they should. Eventually they showed up and it was like Christmas morning for this overgrown kid! The date of these pictures was Friday, October 14th, 2022... Next time we'll investigate manufacturer markings and construction details...

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
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Thanks Veterans

[Stock Steve]

Thirteen Inch Oddball Steelies - Initial Observations and Test Fit... You'd think that the way that raised central rib looks that it would naturally take a '68 & up chrome hubcap popped onto it, right? No such luck! It's a smaller diameter! And it only has three "nubs," rather than four like the typical '68 & up steel wheel (the red one is one I had handy for a comparo). The other significant difference between these 13s and the VW wheel is that the center hole is bigger on the 13s, so that a typical aftermarket center cap that you might buy for a VW wheel would also work--but also no such luck... Second picture illustrates another important step--the actual test-fit onto the car, (my stock '70 Bug) which verified: 1) Proper bolt pattern, and 2) No brake drum interference... So far, so good!

BELOW: That's one of my current refinished 14" Dan Gurney wheels that got taken off temporarily for this exercise.

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
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Thanks Veterans

[Stock Steve]

Some part markings... Still in the initial stages of examining and documenting the as-received wheels... As I think I previously noted, there were three welded KPZ (Kronprinz, I believe that stands for) wheels, and one riveted Lemmerz wheel making up the set. All were size 4Jx13. The riveted Lemmerz was date code 7/63. The welded KPZs were all date coded 2/62. I've marked up a couple of photos to illustrate both types, and also provided a reference image for what the KPZ and Lemmerz logos/markings look like more clearly (the logo/emblem images are not mine, they were found elsewhere on the internet).

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Ich Bin Ein Facebooker: https://www.facebook.com/steve.fromsaac
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
-----
Thanks Veterans

[Stock Steve]

Tracing origins... From some excellent advice provided by knowledgeable Samba members, it appears most likely that these wheels were originally used on the DKW "Junior" automobile, a small car that was manufactured '59 to '63, reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DKW_Junior (also sometimes known as the DKW "F12"). This was a small front-drive car, with a two-stroke engine. I'm pretty sure I've never seen a real one (at least not in the United States). In addition to that wikipedia link, I wish to add a couple of pretty cool images from the internet that feature the DKW Junior/F12. The Brandenburg Gate image came from an Audi web page (https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/photos/detail/front-dkw-junior-750-cc-50-bhp-rear-auto-union-1000s-4-door-saloon-1000-cc-50bhp-8850); the others just mostly from random google searches. Even though my set of wheels looked to have possibly multiple coats of paint on then as-received, it certainly looks like that light cream color was "the" color for the wheels on DKW Juniors/F12s.

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Ich Bin Ein Facebooker: https://www.facebook.com/steve.fromsaac
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
-----
Thanks Veterans

[Stock Steve]

Next stop, the powder coaters... Once I was pretty sure I wanted to go ahead with refinishing these wheels, I contacted "American Dry Stripping & Powder Coating" in Milford, CT (https://www.americandrystripping.com/). This is the veteran-owned company that bought out the other local powder coating shop I'd been doing business with for many years: "Shoreline Coatings" in North Branford, CT. It appears that ADS/PC acquired that company, and consolidated all of the operations in their main Milford, CT home base, which is where I went with these wheels... I contacted them (they have a "begin your estimate" button on their main web site page, which you fill out, providing information & pictures of your project, and a representative calls you back a day or so later to discuss it with you), got an estimate, and brought them by the shop in mid-November... Stay tuned for more updates... (*Spoiler Alert: They did a wonderful job!)

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Ich Bin Ein Facebooker: https://www.facebook.com/steve.fromsaac
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
-----
Thanks Veterans

[Mike Fisher]

I ran 14" wire wheels on my squareback, but 13" is getting pretty short for a VW?
They would probably look better on a Fridolin etc.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
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'68 Karmann Ghia sold

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[Stock Steve]

[Stock Steve]

Sneak peek from pickup day... Pick-up day for the finished wheels was sooner than I had expected. I had dropped them off on Monday, 10/17/2022, and was picking them up at lunchtime on Wednesday, 10/19/2022. The powder coating company wrapped them up very nicely in foam and clear plastic, and carried them out to me at my car... As of this writing (12/22/2022), I have only unwrapped one of them fully so far, but that day that I had picked them up, I had to at least partially unwrap one and take a quick photo of the central face... Looked very nice, I must say!... Gloss black was a subjective choice on my part... The second photo is a slightly cropped version of the first one, with an arrow pointing to some significant-looking corrosion damage at the valve stem hole, which prompted me to buy some bolt-in valve stems, just in case, ref: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075NLJ3PW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ... Anyway, still more to come, so do stay tuned... Merry Christmas, by the way, if I don't get back here again until after the 25th...

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
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Thanks Veterans

[NJ John]

What tire size are you planning on? Big and littles, maybe?
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1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
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[Stock Steve]

[Stock Steve]

Full reveal of one of them refinished...

I unwrapped one of the refinished wheels on Friday, October 28th, 2022, for a look-see, and test fit of some generic Amazon-sourced generic center caps. The 3.25" diameter push-thru generic plastic center caps were found at: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089R8FV7C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (this is because the center holes of these wheels were bigger than the center holes on the stock '68-up Type 1 hubcap wheel). Here are both sides of one of the KPZ wheels--from the back side view you can see it is welded construction.

Then a couple of pictures of it with one of the center caps and four lug bolts mocked up:

It was NOT easy finding any good center cap stickers that would fit nicely in that shallow, ~48mm diameter, recessed area at the top--but I eventually did find some kinda cool-looking generic ones, and those'll be revealed next installment... OH! And thru a DKW group on Facebook, I was able to find an (only one so far) original DKW hub cap to fit these wheels (used, decent shape, but not perfect); I bought it from an ebay seller in Italy, and the shipping cost more than the hub cap itself--but it was worth it--now I have one! Couple of pictures of that coming eventually also...

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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Ich Bin Ein Facebooker: https://www.facebook.com/steve.fromsaac
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
-----
Thanks Veterans

[slalombuggy]

I gotta be thinking that the selection of 13" tires is gettin down to fk all to nuthin. The last car I had with 13s was my 79 Scitroco back in 1991 and I haven't mounted a set of 13s for 20 years except for trailers.

I had a set of 155/80/13" race studded Haka's for my Mk1. Wasn't anywhere I couldn't go in the winter. Was like driving on dry asphalt

[NJ John]

Back in the day, I bought 13” Mickey Thompson big and tall 60 series for the rear of my Vega. Bias ply and a letter code, G or D? Anyway, awesome big 13” tires. Probably 25” tall. When I went to replace them. That whole series was gone and the biggest 13 was a 205/60 radial. Short little tire. Totally sucked.
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1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage

[EVfun]

Back in high school one of my cars was a 1965 Dodge Dart. They came from the factory with 13 inch wheels. The original tire size was 6.50x13 (24.6 inches tall) but I ran P175/70R13 tires (22.6 inches tall) and lowered the suspension 1 inch front and rear. It was fairly low from Dodge so after taking it down 2 inches I had to be careful around speed bumps.

Anyway, if a tiny tire is your idea for those 13 inch wheels there is not much shorter than the P175/70R13 tire size. There are 145/80 and 165/65 in the 13 inch wheel size (both about 1/2 inch shorter), but they are less common.
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[oprn]

I see this wheel has pounded out bolt holes. How did you fix that? With the center hole being oversized it is going to be tough to get that wheel to balance and the wheel bolts to stay tight?

Yes 13" tires are as rare as hen's teeth these days!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Stock Steve]

[Stock Steve]

Center cap stickers find... I think I mentioned last time that I was not easy finding 48mm center cap stickers, to fit nicely into the recessed area at the tops of the generic Amazon chromed plastic center caps. What do you know, Amazon also had some that were kind of funky & offbeat, and that had a 48mm size. Nice and colorful. I guess they're supposed to remind you of a highly stylized scorpion. I was pleased with the quality, they're on a metal backing--not just a piece of mylar. Here's the Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B5WHN4BZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I still haven't bought tires for these wheels--I'm still looking for something interesting (& not necessarily practical)...
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Stock Steve
Shoreline Antique Auto Connection
http://www.shorelineantiqueautoconnection.com/
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Ich Bin Ein Facebooker: https://www.facebook.com/steve.fromsaac
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Join VVWCA: http://www.vvwca.com/
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Your source for old school metal tire valve caps: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1416217
-----
Thanks Veterans