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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:03 pm Post subject: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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After questioning whether or not it was actually necessary, I’ve finally decided to start the process of removing/replacing the cargo floor in my ‘60 Kombi. I’ve watched a lot of videos and read a lot of threads, but still have a couple of questions.
Started drilling out the spot welds on the cross members and it’s actually going pretty well. Spot welds are pretty easy to locate after a little wire-wheeling, and the Harbor Freight spot weld drilling tool is working nicely. I’ve got quite a bit of work to do on the cross members, but wondering as to the attachment points along the perimeter of the floor.
I see there are vertical “flanges” along the long side and bulkhead. Are there spot welds along these flanges that I’ll be drilling out as well?
Lastly, (who am I kidding with “lastly”), it would appear the cargo opening area of the floor would be spot welded all the way across the opening as well, correct?
Bottom line, can anyone verify the floor is spot welded all the way around the perimeter of the cargo floor?
Thanks! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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kafer60 Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Fredericksburg, Va
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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EJZero1 wrote: |
After questioning whether or not it was actually necessary, I’ve finally decided to start the process of removing/replacing the cargo floor in my ‘60 Kombi. I’ve watched a lot of videos and read a lot of threads, but still have a couple of questions.
Started drilling out the spot welds on the cross members and it’s actually going pretty well. Spot welds are pretty easy to locate after a little wire-wheeling, and the Harbor Freight spot weld drilling tool is working nicely. I’ve got quite a bit of work to do on the cross members, but wondering as to the attachment points along the perimeter of the floor.
I see there are vertical “flanges” along the long side and bulkhead. Are there spot welds along these flanges that I’ll be drilling out as well?
Lastly, (who am I kidding with “lastly”), it would appear the cargo opening area of the floor would be spot welded all the way across the opening as well, correct?
Bottom line, can anyone verify the floor is spot welded all the way around the perimeter of the cargo floor?
Thanks! |
Yes it is spot welded all the way around. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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There are small areas of welding bead around the vertical supports coming up thru the floor. "B" & "C" pillars and the non-cargo door side ones. Plus where the heater tubes come up thru the rear of the floor. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Thanks, guys.
I guess the plan is to drill out as many spot welds as I can possibly find, and then see where it’s still attached when I try to pull it out! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Just in case. If you you are pulling out old floor to replace it. We could use the sections just over the jack points, for our 1960 walk thru panel camper. Rest of the floor is perfect! _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:16 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Just in case. If you you are pulling out old floor to replace it. We could use the sections just over the jack points, for our 1960 walk thru panel camper. Rest of the floor is perfect! |
Coincidentally, that’s the main reason we’re pulling ours. I can see lots of daylight over and around all 4 corners. Another crusty area or two, along with a number of structural components underneath, and I figured I might as well do it all at once.
Sorry I couldn’t help you out! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:20 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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EJZero1 wrote: |
Sorry I couldn’t help you out! |
No problem! Had to ask.
Make sure to pressure wash out the rear of the frame rails where they are closed up near front of the transaxle. Was amazing how much dust mud was in there. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Figured I might as well document my process and hopefully be the thread I wish I could have found in my searches! On another note, it'll likely serve as some kind of motivational accountability for me to keep the project moving along...
Floor has some significant holes in each corner that are equally reflective of the condition of the outriggers and jack points under each hole. While one could argue I could just patch the corners, I figured I might as well replace the whole thing. Additionally, I suspect this will make replacement of the structure under the floor a little easier.
I've opted to drill out as many spot welds as I can locate and go from there, versus air chisel. My only real rationale being that localized work on each spot weld will likely have less collateral damage on the associated surfaces as I move along. Might change my mind later, depending on my patience...
Decided to start with one of the cross members as it would seem a pretty straight forward line of spot welds to address as I wrapped my brain around the actual process.
First step was the location of the welds themselves. A little bit of time with a wire wheel on a drill motor seemed to work nicely.
Next, I dimpled each spot weld with a hammer and punch. These served as a starting point for drilling shallow divots that would serve as pilot holes for the spot weld removal bit.
Let the weld drilling begin! Using the Harbor Freight bits at $4.99 each. The learning curve was not nice to these bits, and my first 70 or so welds cost me 3 bits. $15.00 in lessons learned should pay dividends as I move forward. A drop of oil on each weld and patience should go a long way.
Took me a little more than an hour to do the length of one cross member. 4 or 5 more of those to go, I think. Towards the end of the line, I got to where I could sense the tone of the drill motor change as I got through the floor metal. Addionally, often I would see the color of the steel shavings change as I got to the underside of the floor/cross member connection as some dirt/rust would start to surface.
Guess that's it for now. Will keep working the remaining cross members, and then start moving on to the vertical "tabs" that attach the floor to the sides, bulkhead, cargo door threshold, etc... I suspect they'll present a bit more of a challenge than the cross members, but we'll see.
For the record, my goal is to do as little body work to the bus as possible, in order to preserve the patina'd look. It's still in the original colors the original owner ordered it in, and I absolutely love the way her appearance tells her stories. All the new metal I'll be putting in will realistically be unseen, but I want a strong floor/under floor structure as I plan on building a camper interior.
More to follow! Comments, encouragement and advice/tips more than welcome! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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boulderz Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 72 Location: VT
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:17 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Looks like you've got a good start. For spot welds, if you have a compressor, I found that a finger sander is easier. At some point, your going to need to cut between the cross members and undoubtedly need to chisel up the floor as you're not getting all of the weld. Might be easier to make a cut between cross members and remove each section as you go as that will allow you to curl the floor up which will help bust spot welds.. curious what other feedback you get. |
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Viking Funeral Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 60 Location: Under the bus at the moment
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal WITHOUT drilling Spot Welds |
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This is how I did it without drilling the spot welds:
Carefully mark lines on your floor OUTSIDE of where each cross member is located under the floor. This is where you're going to be cutting. Make those cuts using an ordinary circular saw with a 7" metal-cutting blade ($5). Be sure to set a very SHALLOW CUTTING DEPTH because you're going to be cutting right over the shift rod tube & various other metal tubes lurking under the floor.
Cut out any tight corners of the floor with a metal-cutting disk on a 4+1/2" angle grinder or a saber saw or whatever you have. Lift out the cut floor sections.
I didn't take a picture of this, but when you're done cutting with all the saws there will be a thin metal strip of floor still spot welded to the top of each cross member. Remove those with an air chisel going underneath the length of each strip, breaking each spot weld with leverage as you go. It will feel like you're using a big can opener. With an air compressor doing the work it will actually go pretty quick -- but wear good gloves. The chisel will make each weld just pop unless your floor is extremely rusty, in which case the metal floor itself will rip & twist & leave behind very nasty sharp little pieces, each tiny one of which is an opportunity for you to get tetanus.
Grind down whatever is left of each exposed & broken spot weld with your angle grinder. After you get your rhythm each one will take about 5 seconds.
Definitely make plans to treat & paint all of your exposed metal while the floor is out. Maybe use a copper based weldable primer on top of the cross members for when you weld the replacement floor onto it. |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:34 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal WITHOUT drilling Spot Welds |
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Viking Funeral wrote: |
This is how I did it without drilling the spot welds… |
I appreciate your experience on this approach, and may very well give it a shot on at least one of the cross members to compare it to the drilling procedure I’ve been using so far.
I didn’t see any bracing in the cargo door area of your bus. Are there any concerns about sagging or any other potential structural issues once the whole floor is removed?
Lastly, how did you remove the floor pieces where they are joined to the side walls, bulkhead, etc? I did some looking at those areas yesterday, and found spot welds about every 3 - 4 inches. I’m a little hesitant to take the air chisel to them as these areas are pretty solid on my bus, and I don’t want to introduce any damage that would later need repair.
Thanks again for the inputs. _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:47 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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I remove most of my panels with a rivet gun, similar to a cheap air hammer, but with a tease-able trigger. I’d much rather make a few repairs here and there than spend all day drilling. I’ve modified the tips of my chisels for different operations. Saves a lot of time, but takes away from the romance of drilling a thousand holes. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Bulli Klinik wrote: |
Saves a lot of time, but takes away from the romance of drilling a thousand holes. |
Lol…. Thanks for chiming in, Mike.
Adapting as I go, and I’ll spend some time this afternoon cutting out one of the wide sections between the cross members, followed by experimenting with ways to separated the remaining spot welds. I’ll no doubt miss the romance of drilling a thousand holes, but I’m looking for a combination of effective and expeditious.
Thinking ahead to ordering the steel as soon as get the floor out and see what I’ll need underneath. I’ve heard great things about both WW and Gerson’s. Can anyone testify to one over the other for fitment /quality?
Thanks to all for the inputs so far! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Pretty much no going back now. Gave up on the individual spot weld drilling technique as it was apparent that it would take a very very long time. Per inputs above, I’m cutting out the sections between the cross members, then chiseling/prying the spot welds apart. Working pretty well. Work done in the pic took about an hour and a half.
Wasn’t planning on doing rockers, as I actually like the way she looks, rusty rockers and all, but it seems apparent that when I start replacing outriggers and jack points, I’ll need something solid to weld them to. Guess we’ll see how things look when disassembly is complete and I start building my metal list.
Really appreciate all the inputs so far! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:19 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Slow progress is still progress…
More of the floor cut out. I’m about at the point where I need to figure out how to get the 4” out along the outer perimeter. Spot welds along the bulkhead and long rocker have me a little perplexed. Also, I’m a little unsure of how the floor/bulkhead/top hat all come together. Need to figure how it all fits together before I can dive into that area to finish the floor removal.
Any pointer from those that have been there/done that are more than welcome!
_________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:28 am Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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this is the tool I use for buzzing out spot welds quickly and efficiently. I use 60 grit Cubitron belts, be careful as you can grind into the base material very quickly.
not sure if you're on instagram, but if you want to see how to do bus metalwork, check out my work @sledvw _________________ drive your split. |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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sled wrote: |
this is the tool I use for buzzing out spot welds quickly and efficiently. I use 60 grit Cubitron belts, be careful as you can grind into the base material very quickly.
not sure if you're on instagram, but if you want to see how to do bus metalwork, check out my work @sledvw |
That tool looks perfect! Headed to Instagram now! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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That 1/2” belt sander is my new favorite tool! A small learning curve to avoid going too far too fast, and easily made quick work of the remaining spot welds on the middle top hat. Another afternoon or two and the entire floor should be out!
Thanks for the inputs! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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EJZero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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Floor removal is about done and I’ve started my shopping list for metal. Outriggers, top hats, jack points, etc…. Another question for those that have gone down this road before.
I’ve got this rust behind both front wheels.
Is there a replacement part that addresses this area? I’m guessing it’s a commonly addressed area of repair, but couldn’t find a part like the replacement outriggers or rockers to replace this area. I’ve ordered the outrigger, top hat and jack point for this area, but I’m guessing there’s more needed.
Bus is a non-walk through, if it matters.
Thanks! _________________ ‘60 Kombi, The “Bob Dowell Van” |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: ‘60 Kombi Cargo Floor Removal |
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You should contact Gerson and inquire with him. After all they produce all the sheet metal to make a full bus body. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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