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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 456 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:03 am Post subject: Porsche's model |
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I visited the transportation museum in Munich and came across this display of what I assumed is the actual model presented to Hitler.
Just thought I would share it on the forum.
_________________ 1-0900722 die langsame grüne Schildkröte
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=765074 |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 456 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Thanks for sharing those. I don't think I have seen pictures that close up. Amazing amount of detail went into that model. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Just some additional pictures
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DDub Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2005 Posts: 306 Location: central pa.
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Does anyone know what materials it is made from? |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Interesting that the engine has the dual port intake like the very early engines did.
Incredibly detailed. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9880 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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What is the canister behind the fan shroud? An oil filter? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7839 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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^ that's the coil, it was mounted on the gearbox side of the shroud
the engine is very detailed and I assume the body is die cast? _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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finster wrote: |
^ that's the coil, it was mounted on the gearbox side of the shroud
the engine is very detailed and I assume the body is die cast? |
A lot of the parts have a brass color to them so I am assuming a lot of the parts are cast brass using the lost-wax process. I think the floor pan is made this way too.
As far as the body goes, I wouldn't think it wouldn't be die cast since this was a one off or at least only a few were being made. Making mold for one or a couple of models doesn't seem likely, but maybe. It could be made from sheet brass or steel and shaped by hand or it might be fiberglass. According to an article I read, fiberglass was being used for military aircraft parts as early as '32, although I don't know about Germany as it was an American invention and the polymers were heat cured so making a mold for fiberglass might be as involved as making one for die casting unless they can be made from plaster. Thermoforming plastics, didn't come about until after the war so that isn't likely.
Hand formed sheet metal is probably the most likely process although lost wax casting might be a possibility. It could have been cast in pieces, soldered together and had any seams leaded and hand finished. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 456 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Good observation. Honestly, I don't know from where I have these pictures. I've been there and took pictures, but it is possible that I have mixed them under pictures I found on internet.
I believe, the steering does function and the doors and lids could be opened. That is one of the most accurate and nicest models I have seen from a beetle, and the same time one of the first models ever produced. Could imagine the body is steel, have a look on these perfect curved body lines and gaps. Even the curve about the door and side panel is abolutely nice, the doors lower edges meet the edges of the side panels. Even a carpet to find on the chassis. Door cards and headliner are installed! |
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Vanagonsgoslow Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2019 Posts: 78 Location: E Dorado Hills, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Does anyone know if that is the actual model given to Hitler by Dr. Porsche or just a facsimile copy of it?
I would imagine that the model originally given to Hitler was looted as a souvenir from his Berlin offices or the Eagles Nest in Bavaria when those places were taken over by the Russian and American soldiers at the end of WW2. With that said, it does not diminish the craftsmanship and beauty of this model in the VW Museum. |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 2103 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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I don't know at all what the body was made of originally, but the shine/structure on this pic, it could very well be made from black bakelite. Considering the manufacturing process they already used in making gauge and fuse panels, steering wheels aso.
Whether or not this is Hiedlers personal bug, it is just awesome !
The air filter seems to have been knurled on a lathe.
Even a return spring on the gas cable!
_________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !
Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt and Oval afficionado
52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 23760 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Vanagonsgoslow wrote: |
Does anyone know if that is the actual model given to Hitler by Dr. Porsche or just a facsimile copy of it? |
I believe this is the same model.
splitjunkie wrote: |
Interesting that the engine has the dual port intake like the very early engines did. |
It also has the bolt-on valve covers, which are only seen on early prototype engines.
splitjunkie wrote: |
A lot of the parts have a brass color to them so I am assuming a lot of the parts are cast brass using the lost-wax process. I think the floor pan is made this way too.
As far as the body goes, I wouldn't think it wouldn't be die cast since this was a one off or at least only a few were being made. Hand formed sheet metal is probably the most likely process although lost wax casting might be a possibility. |
I believe the entire body is sheet brass. I've seen a photo of the one that was presented to Willi Messerschmidt, and it had a dent in the roof, which made it appear to be thin metal. _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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DDub Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2005 Posts: 306 Location: central pa.
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Fabulous workmanship. Thanks for posting. |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:10 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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These models are mentioned in Barbers book. They produced more than one as gifts for several VIPs. These models have been packed in a wooden box in design of a container for shipment from that time. The even created a little paper label, sticked on the little container
Whether this model shown was the gift for Hitler himself or not - I have no doubt that this model is an original one.
This model is not shown in the VW Museum but in a Museum in Munich. |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 23760 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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The model shown on page 140 of Birth of the Beetle with the shipping crate was produced in 1/15 scale in Feb., 1938, before the final version of the KdF-Wagen appeared. Its whereabouts are unknown.
The car we see above was 1/12 scale, and was made sometime after April, 1938. This first one was presented to Der Fuhrer on his 49th birthday. It is shown on page 141, and the caption says it is on display in the Deutsches Museum in Munich. _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1036 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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Blue Baron wrote: |
The model shown on page 140 of Birth of the Beetle with the shipping crate was produced in 1/15 scale in Feb., 1938, before the final version of the KdF-Wagen appeared. Its whereabouts are unknown.
The car we see above was 1/12 scale, and was made sometime after April, 1938. This first one was presented to Der Fuhrer on his 49th birthday. It is shown on page 141, and the caption says it is on display in the Deutsches Museum in Munich. |
I recalled from memory, as I have given my Barber book as a gift to a friend and do not have it at hand now. It seems I forgot, there are two models shown in barbers book on page 140 and 141? |
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typ914 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2012 Posts: 227 Location: Atlanta, Ga
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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My uneducated speculation suggests that this being a gift to him, it might have been considered a piece of art rather than just a model. I would suspect it might actually be a bronze sculpture. |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7839 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Porsche's model |
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christies sold one (number 3) in 1996 for £42,500 and this is their blurb -
An important 1:12.5 scale model of the K.d.F. Wagen "Kraft durch Freude" (Strength through Joy Car) built in the Porsche Apprentice School in Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen during 1938, Registration Number 23.9.1941 and stamped No.3 on the crankcase and floor pan and with III scratched in the paint on the underside of the bonnet.
The removable bodywork has opening doors with spring loaded catches, opening bonnet and boot, instruments and switches, head and tail lights, bumpers, perspex windows and windscreen. The very detailed chassis is fitted with rubber tyred wheels, working rear suspension, brake drums and cables, working steering, spring loaded pedals, round fuel tank, gear and hand brake levers, upholstered seats, carpeted floor, battery box and cable and pressed ribbed floor pan. Engine details include gear box with filler plug, half shafts, starter motor, rocker covers, belt driven fan and ducting. coil and spark plugs, carburettor, exhaust pipes, silencer and other details. The bodywork is finished in black and chrome (boot catch and wipers missing), the chassis in lacquer -- 45.8 x 121.2ins. (11.7 x 31.8cms.)
Draft by Hitler of his idea of a people's car drawn in the summer of 1932 in Osteria-Bavaria in Munich for Jacob Werlin, Head of Daimler-Benz Neiderlassung and Hitler's advisor for cars "Take this with you" he said to Werlin, "and talk to the people who know more than I do but don't forget it. I want to hear from you how this thing is developing technically"
c.f. Die Welt 2.5.1981
Note:
It is understood that five models were built and many photographs exist of Adolf Hitler, on his 49th birthday 20.4.1938 being presented with one of these models, presumably stamped '1' by Reichsorganisationsleiter Dr Robert Ley; nothing is subsequently known of this example
No. 2 was apparently given to Dr Ferdinand Porsche and is understood to be still in the family's possession.
No. 3 was presented to Dr Robert Bosch by Dr Ley on the occassion of his 80th Birthday, 23.9.41 and is recorded by the numberplate and his initials in the centre of the near side instrument cluster. At the same time he was nominated 'A Pioneer of Work' and 'Honarary Master of German Trade and Industry'. Subsequently it was given by Dr Bosch to his chief technician, and thence by descent to the vendor.
No. 4 was presented to The Deutsches Museum Munich and is currently on display. The Deutches Museum have certified that their model is exactly in accordance with the example stamped '3', and in their opinion this model is genuine.
No. 5, the precise whereabouts are unknown at this time, but it is understood to be in a private collection in Germany. _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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