Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!!
Page: Previous  1, 2
Forum Index -> HBB Off-Road Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cptcrusty1
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: Texas
cptcrusty1 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

DesertSasquatchXploration wrote:
its a Billy Goat off road


Laughing Smile Very Happy

Nice analogy. Almost snorted my coffee.

I'm going to look into that option. 4.37, question will be how long will it take to get it done. The only shop near me that can do it moves at a glacial pace. Another option is reducing the 29's to 26's for the back tires... Instant gear reduction there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12632
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

That is the least expensive thing to try and the quickest. In fact, if your fronts are in that range, just swap them around and give it a go. It may not be quite enough though... with the cam and heads you have.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member


Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 502

DesertSasquatchXploration is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

The part I love most about the 4.37 is when you want to do sand 31inch sand vipers or dessert tracks are perfect you still get good RPM and good wheel speed. Its perfect for smaller engines. The guys BENCO transmission in riverside built my trans he recommended the 4.37 and super diff the moment I said 1776 and Baja bug.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member


Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 502

DesertSasquatchXploration is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Single square (skinny tires)Not saying A 4.37 is the best setup for sand and dirt but I know it works quite well. Looks like were both running a stock suspension Baja you will love the PEP a 4.37 brings and you don't want smaller tires dragging a$$ like a bro dozer. =)


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mikedrevguy
Samba Member


Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2234
Location: Medford, OR
Mikedrevguy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Running a 1680 / 69*88. With W110 and dual kadrons. Tires are 235*75*15 with a stock 4.12 gearing. 1.1 stock rockers
It performs daily driver tasks of freeway driving 70-75mph. fAirly well.
And it blows doors on mountain roads

This said, I’m anticipating changing to a 134 3rd gear and 104 4th. (Or near to sizes) and run 31x10.5x15.
But then I’m also putting a 914 2.0L in and get to learn this all over.
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

Illigitimi non-Carborundum!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stinky123
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2022
Posts: 128
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Stinky123 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Your R&P should be 4.37 or 4.86.

There are reasons that they make close ratio 3-4 gears.

Chuck those big valve heads. I assume that they are ported. Much has been said about air velocity, and I didn't see anything that I disagreed with.

Bigger is not always better, especially when you want bottom-end.

That said, not sure that you said what your car is built for.

Your tires are really not that big. I've seen bigger run w/a stock 1600.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5389
Location: Holland, MI
Vanapplebomb is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

A lot of 1600 desert race buggies run 33” tires. Most have transmissions built for it, and they do ok.

I think it wise to communicate intentions with your engine and transmission builders next time.

Sounds like the transmission builder gave you a stock car transmission, and the engine builder gave you an engine you have to rev way up to make any power. Not a good combo for an off road buggy.


My buggy is not powerful, and has maybe 80hp on the best days. But I built the engine for good bottom end and midrange torque. It has a 4.83:1 ring and pinion with stock 1-4, and turns 33” tires in 4th with no problem. It’s all in the combo.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cptcrusty1
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: Texas
cptcrusty1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

DesertSasquatchXploration wrote:
its a Billy Goat off road


Laughing Smile Very Happy

Nice analogy. Almost snorted my coffee.

I'm going to look into that option. 4.37, question will be how long will it take to get it done. The only shop near me that can do it moves at a glacial pace. Another option is reducing the 29's to 26's for the back tires... Instant gear reduction there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cptcrusty1
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: Texas
cptcrusty1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Vanapplebomb wrote:
A lot of 1600 desert race buggies run 33” tires. Most have transmissions built for it, and they do ok.

I think it wise to communicate intentions with your engine and transmission builders next time.

Sounds like the transmission builder gave you a stock car transmission
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In this situation I actually spoke at length to the transmission supplier about what I was going to do, and what the engine was going to be. Part of the problem was me not knowing enough and trusting the supplier to get it right. As it would turn out, the employee that sold me the transmission is no longer there for... what I'm going to assume... would be reasons similar to my own situation. That person sold me the wrong tranny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cbeck
Samba Member


Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2494
Location: high ridge, mo
cbeck is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

If you want/need all 4 gears steeper, go ring and pinion.
If first and second are ok, maybe think about close ratio 3+4.
_________________
My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DHale_510
Samba Member


Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 378
Location: Nampa Idaho
DHale_510 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Remember that the air cooling really needs to be run at 3000rpm, maybe more with a higher torque peak motor. Larger tires does not change this.
I ran my buggy with stock gears and a 1200cc motor during the Carter era gas foolishness, and of course big tires... it was the 70s and I was younger.. I drove it about 500 miles each way to a BugIn in LA mostly in third gear. It got over 40mpg. I could draft big rigs and coast in fourth. It had neither a gas gauge nor realistic speedometer though. Still got the same mileage. Never have been so sunburned in my life.
I put a new transmission with close third and fourth in and it was better.
Dennis
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
joemama
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1635
Location: La Crescenta, California
joemama is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

I have a fiberglass buggy, have had it over 20 years. Its got a 1915 with engle 110, stock heads, single 2 barrel Zenith. I have duned all over Glamis, using desert traks, and a swing axle 4:37. I did the biggest bowls in Glamis, but never got out pf 2nd gear, and at times down shifted into 1st. Part of that is that with the desert traks, you end up spinning the tire, and need the rpm's to keep going. Thats actually a good thing with a smaller motor, keeps the power going, prevents bogging down. Having said that, you better have a counterweight crank and a balanced motor. I eventually moved on to a bus 5 rib trans (4:86), but ended up not liking it, doesnt behave as sporty as a type 1 trans. I am back to a type 1 with 4:37, but its now IRS. I wont be duning often, if ever, so I stuck to stock 3rd and 4th, but I think the ideal type 1 trans, would be 4:37 with close ratio 3rd and 4th. I run 30 inch tall BG Goodrich A/T tires, and my buggy is very peppy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12632
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

joemama wrote:
I eventually moved on to a bus 5 rib trans (4:86), but ended up not liking it, doesnt behave as sporty as a type 1 trans.

It has been my experiance that the 3 rib Bus transaxles shift like a truck compared to the Beetle transaxles. I think part of that is that the Bus was designed with a 3 foot long shift lever whereas the Beetle one is only 8" so the Bus transaxle with a Beetle shift lever is pretty stiff. For my kind of driving it's fine, others may not like it.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cptcrusty1
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: Texas
cptcrusty1 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Someone on FB suggested ATV/UTV tires... WOW... now there's a thought. The question now is whether I can accurately determine how much easier 27's will turn vs. 29's... I can keep the 29's for now.

already talking to the builder about ripping out the tranny and sending it to a builder. Turn around shouldn't be too back which would allow me to work on the interior, sound deadening stuff... details.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12632
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Not all ATV tires are rated for the street. That is what I have and they are not. I hear some of the newer ones are.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cptcrusty1
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: Texas
cptcrusty1 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Not all ATV tires are rated for the street. That is what I have and they are not. I hear some of the newer ones are.


I spent a good amount of time looking yesterday. Some of those tires are for sure not going to do well on the highway in the rain. Some of them look like the tires I have on now though. I'd have to play it smart. It would appear my harder issue to resolve is actually finding some tires that fit. My requirements of 26 or 27" diameter to fit a 15x8 rim are compounding the difficulties. My own inexperience is adding to that.

Hmmm.. Maybe I could put the 15x8 on the front, and put some 15x10 on the back? There's a thought.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PhillipM
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2010
Posts: 595
Location: UK
PhillipM is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Plenty of forest rally tyres in that kinda size, might be worth a look.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cptcrusty1
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: Texas
cptcrusty1 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

PhillipM wrote:
Plenty of forest rally tyres in that kinda size, might be worth a look.


I must not be very good at this. Everything I'm finding is in the UK. I'm in Texas. You'd think I could find everything. Cooper looks promising... UK, Mr. Tyre... UK... UGH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wulfthang
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2018
Posts: 715
Location: Tucson
Wulfthang is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

Here's some suggestions for tire stores.
https://www.tirerack.com/content/tirerack/desktop/en/homepage.html
https://www.discounttire.com/tires/brands
And don't knock retreads out of the running. They're not like they used to be.
https://www.tirerecappers.com/how-does-retread-work/

Overall gear ratios, from the engine crank to the road, can be scary. I first "learned" about them when I was about sixteen and the proud owner of my first street bike. I geared that Yamaha with new chain sprockets so that it was now geared to be able to run over a hundred and fifty miles an hour....on paper.

In the real life test out on a back road, I ran it up thru the gears while hanging on for dear life because I knew the wind at 160 mph would rip me loose. All it would do was about seventy and that took a long time to get there!

Yeah, I was a little disappointed. Years later in one of several tech schools, I learned about the horsepower required to swing those massive gear ratios and overall gear ratios including the tire and wheel. There is no replacement for displacement!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member


Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 502

DesertSasquatchXploration is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! Reply with quote

I bought a set of 235 75 15s from Tire Recappers couple years back fast shipping and they were great off road had a small flat spot but rubber was soft had a good-year tread on a BFG sidewall they balanced ok to. Worked well for two years started cracking but were safe for at least one more year. They were sooo cheap! The tire shop made me pay cash and no receipt on the install.

Just checked the website they want 101$ they were 64$ 2-3 years ago.
You can get a new tire for the 130$range. The casings they use are 4 to 5 years old I wouldn't waste my time at that price.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> HBB Off-Road All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.