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cptcrusty1 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
its a Billy Goat off road |
Nice analogy. Almost snorted my coffee.
I'm going to look into that option. 4.37, question will be how long will it take to get it done. The only shop near me that can do it moves at a glacial pace. Another option is reducing the 29's to 26's for the back tires... Instant gear reduction there. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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That is the least expensive thing to try and the quickest. In fact, if your fronts are in that range, just swap them around and give it a go. It may not be quite enough though... with the cam and heads you have. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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DesertSasquatchXploration Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021 Posts: 502
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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The part I love most about the 4.37 is when you want to do sand 31inch sand vipers or dessert tracks are perfect you still get good RPM and good wheel speed. Its perfect for smaller engines. The guys BENCO transmission in riverside built my trans he recommended the 4.37 and super diff the moment I said 1776 and Baja bug. |
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DesertSasquatchXploration Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021 Posts: 502
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Single square (skinny tires)Not saying A 4.37 is the best setup for sand and dirt but I know it works quite well. Looks like were both running a stock suspension Baja you will love the PEP a 4.37 brings and you don't want smaller tires dragging a$$ like a bro dozer. =)
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Running a 1680 / 69*88. With W110 and dual kadrons. Tires are 235*75*15 with a stock 4.12 gearing. 1.1 stock rockers
It performs daily driver tasks of freeway driving 70-75mph. fAirly well.
And it blows doors on mountain roads
This said, I’m anticipating changing to a 134 3rd gear and 104 4th. (Or near to sizes) and run 31x10.5x15.
But then I’m also putting a 914 2.0L in and get to learn this all over. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Stinky123 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2022 Posts: 128 Location: Grand Junction, CO
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Your R&P should be 4.37 or 4.86.
There are reasons that they make close ratio 3-4 gears.
Chuck those big valve heads. I assume that they are ported. Much has been said about air velocity, and I didn't see anything that I disagreed with.
Bigger is not always better, especially when you want bottom-end.
That said, not sure that you said what your car is built for.
Your tires are really not that big. I've seen bigger run w/a stock 1600. |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5389 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:45 am Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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A lot of 1600 desert race buggies run 33” tires. Most have transmissions built for it, and they do ok.
I think it wise to communicate intentions with your engine and transmission builders next time.
Sounds like the transmission builder gave you a stock car transmission, and the engine builder gave you an engine you have to rev way up to make any power. Not a good combo for an off road buggy.
My buggy is not powerful, and has maybe 80hp on the best days. But I built the engine for good bottom end and midrange torque. It has a 4.83:1 ring and pinion with stock 1-4, and turns 33” tires in 4th with no problem. It’s all in the combo.
_________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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cptcrusty1 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
its a Billy Goat off road |
Nice analogy. Almost snorted my coffee.
I'm going to look into that option. 4.37, question will be how long will it take to get it done. The only shop near me that can do it moves at a glacial pace. Another option is reducing the 29's to 26's for the back tires... Instant gear reduction there. |
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cptcrusty1 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Vanapplebomb wrote: |
A lot of 1600 desert race buggies run 33” tires. Most have transmissions built for it, and they do ok.
I think it wise to communicate intentions with your engine and transmission builders next time.
Sounds like the transmission builder gave you a stock car transmission
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In this situation I actually spoke at length to the transmission supplier about what I was going to do, and what the engine was going to be. Part of the problem was me not knowing enough and trusting the supplier to get it right. As it would turn out, the employee that sold me the transmission is no longer there for... what I'm going to assume... would be reasons similar to my own situation. That person sold me the wrong tranny. |
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cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2494 Location: high ridge, mo
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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If you want/need all 4 gears steeper, go ring and pinion.
If first and second are ok, maybe think about close ratio 3+4. _________________ My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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DHale_510 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010 Posts: 378 Location: Nampa Idaho
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Remember that the air cooling really needs to be run at 3000rpm, maybe more with a higher torque peak motor. Larger tires does not change this.
I ran my buggy with stock gears and a 1200cc motor during the Carter era gas foolishness, and of course big tires... it was the 70s and I was younger.. I drove it about 500 miles each way to a BugIn in LA mostly in third gear. It got over 40mpg. I could draft big rigs and coast in fourth. It had neither a gas gauge nor realistic speedometer though. Still got the same mileage. Never have been so sunburned in my life.
I put a new transmission with close third and fourth in and it was better.
Dennis
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joemama Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1635 Location: La Crescenta, California
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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I have a fiberglass buggy, have had it over 20 years. Its got a 1915 with engle 110, stock heads, single 2 barrel Zenith. I have duned all over Glamis, using desert traks, and a swing axle 4:37. I did the biggest bowls in Glamis, but never got out pf 2nd gear, and at times down shifted into 1st. Part of that is that with the desert traks, you end up spinning the tire, and need the rpm's to keep going. Thats actually a good thing with a smaller motor, keeps the power going, prevents bogging down. Having said that, you better have a counterweight crank and a balanced motor. I eventually moved on to a bus 5 rib trans (4:86), but ended up not liking it, doesnt behave as sporty as a type 1 trans. I am back to a type 1 with 4:37, but its now IRS. I wont be duning often, if ever, so I stuck to stock 3rd and 4th, but I think the ideal type 1 trans, would be 4:37 with close ratio 3rd and 4th. I run 30 inch tall BG Goodrich A/T tires, and my buggy is very peppy. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:54 am Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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joemama wrote: |
I eventually moved on to a bus 5 rib trans (4:86), but ended up not liking it, doesnt behave as sporty as a type 1 trans. |
It has been my experiance that the 3 rib Bus transaxles shift like a truck compared to the Beetle transaxles. I think part of that is that the Bus was designed with a 3 foot long shift lever whereas the Beetle one is only 8" so the Bus transaxle with a Beetle shift lever is pretty stiff. For my kind of driving it's fine, others may not like it. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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cptcrusty1 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Someone on FB suggested ATV/UTV tires... WOW... now there's a thought. The question now is whether I can accurately determine how much easier 27's will turn vs. 29's... I can keep the 29's for now.
already talking to the builder about ripping out the tranny and sending it to a builder. Turn around shouldn't be too back which would allow me to work on the interior, sound deadening stuff... details. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:16 am Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Not all ATV tires are rated for the street. That is what I have and they are not. I hear some of the newer ones are. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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cptcrusty1 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:28 am Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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oprn wrote: |
Not all ATV tires are rated for the street. That is what I have and they are not. I hear some of the newer ones are. |
I spent a good amount of time looking yesterday. Some of those tires are for sure not going to do well on the highway in the rain. Some of them look like the tires I have on now though. I'd have to play it smart. It would appear my harder issue to resolve is actually finding some tires that fit. My requirements of 26 or 27" diameter to fit a 15x8 rim are compounding the difficulties. My own inexperience is adding to that.
Hmmm.. Maybe I could put the 15x8 on the front, and put some 15x10 on the back? There's a thought. |
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 595 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Plenty of forest rally tyres in that kinda size, might be worth a look. |
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cptcrusty1 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:23 am Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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PhillipM wrote: |
Plenty of forest rally tyres in that kinda size, might be worth a look. |
I must not be very good at this. Everything I'm finding is in the UK. I'm in Texas. You'd think I could find everything. Cooper looks promising... UK, Mr. Tyre... UK... UGH |
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Wulfthang Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018 Posts: 715 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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Here's some suggestions for tire stores.
https://www.tirerack.com/content/tirerack/desktop/en/homepage.html
https://www.discounttire.com/tires/brands
And don't knock retreads out of the running. They're not like they used to be.
https://www.tirerecappers.com/how-does-retread-work/
Overall gear ratios, from the engine crank to the road, can be scary. I first "learned" about them when I was about sixteen and the proud owner of my first street bike. I geared that Yamaha with new chain sprockets so that it was now geared to be able to run over a hundred and fifty miles an hour....on paper.
In the real life test out on a back road, I ran it up thru the gears while hanging on for dear life because I knew the wind at 160 mph would rip me loose. All it would do was about seventy and that took a long time to get there!
Yeah, I was a little disappointed. Years later in one of several tech schools, I learned about the horsepower required to swing those massive gear ratios and overall gear ratios including the tire and wheel. There is no replacement for displacement! |
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DesertSasquatchXploration Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021 Posts: 502
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: 4.12 tranny and 29" rear tires.... UGH!! |
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I bought a set of 235 75 15s from Tire Recappers couple years back fast shipping and they were great off road had a small flat spot but rubber was soft had a good-year tread on a BFG sidewall they balanced ok to. Worked well for two years started cracking but were safe for at least one more year. They were sooo cheap! The tire shop made me pay cash and no receipt on the install.
Just checked the website they want 101$ they were 64$ 2-3 years ago.
You can get a new tire for the 130$range. The casings they use are 4 to 5 years old I wouldn't waste my time at that price. |
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