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Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss?
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difuria
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:52 pm    Post subject: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

My 67 Beetle recently started bucking like a bull when accelerating. I Noticed it when the weather turned cold. Cold for Cali standards. It happens usually at the middle to upper end of each gear. When the car warms up it tends to go away. I adjusted the clutch a couple months ago and haven't had problems with it until today. Thoughts?
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

difuria wrote:
My 67 Beetle recently started bucking like a bull when accelerating. I Noticed it when the weather turned cold. Cold for Cali standards. It happens usually at the middle to upper end of each gear. When the car warms up it tends to go away. I adjusted the clutch a couple months ago and haven't had problems with it until today. Thoughts?

Generally, clutch slippage will show up while accelerating through 2-3 gears, right around 2500 to 3500rpm. That's where the engine pulls the most torque.
It would manifest itself as rpm rising and the car is not really pulling like it should. If that makes sense.

Is the engine modified, or stock?
If stock, have you adjusted the choke for colder weather?

When was the last time that you tuned the engine?
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difuria
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick response.

It is a stock engine so to speak. The case numbers are from a 72 if I remember correctly. Everything else is stock.

Between 2nd and 3rd is where I notice it the most. I adjusted the choke in November, and adjusted the clutch within a couple of weeks of the choke when I noticed the bucking. Once the car warms up it appears to operate as normal.

I pulled the spark plugs a couple months ago and cleaned any carbon build up, and sanded the contacts on the cap and rotor too. Everything appeared to be fine. It does have electronic points. I have driven it more the past year than I have in the previous 10 combined. I have not adjusted the valves in sometime, will probably tackle it this weekend.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

difuria wrote:
Thanks for the quick response.

It is a stock engine so to speak. The case numbers are from a 72 if I remember correctly. Everything else is stock.

Between 2nd and 3rd is where I notice it the most. I adjusted the choke in November, and adjusted the clutch within a couple of weeks of the choke when I noticed the bucking. Once the car warms up it appears to operate as normal.

I pulled the spark plugs a couple months ago and cleaned any carbon build up, and sanded the contacts on the cap and rotor too. Everything appeared to be fine. It does have electronic points. I have driven it more the past year than I have in the previous 10 combined. I have not adjusted the valves in sometime, will probably tackle it this weekend.

No offense, but can you describe the "bucking" a little better?

You've been an owner driver for a while now. So I can't attribute your bucking issue. To what happens when a new owner drives a cable controlled VW.
You know, take off from a start and then their foot is bouncing back and forth on the throttle pedal causing the car to buck!
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Jeff Geisen
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Tune up time. Ignition first. Sounds to be maybe dwell, bad condenser…
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difuria
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

No offense taken.

The bucking is similar to when you're learning to drive a stick shift and you let the clutch out too soon. The car larches forward and back pretty violently. But in this case it happens mid-gear, mostly between 2 and 3, and then stops within a few bucks. It is intermittent too.
It mostly happens when the engine is somewhat cold after letting it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes at idle. Once fully warm I don't notice it happening.

The clutch engages fine when shifting, so I question my clutch slippage idea. I'm not leaning towards a miss because the wires, plugs, caps, electronic points, and coil are fairly new. Fairly new as in 5 years, I know its a lot, but I've put less than 7k miles on them, and cleaned up everything recently.

Could be a fuel issue. Carb was rebuilt 7 or 8 years ago and I cleaned it recently after the bucking started and adjusted the choke. The fuel pump was changed around then too. Throttle and clutch cable are about 10 years old. I checked the fuel filter underneath the car and it looked fine, I should probably change it though. I'm thinking about pulling the gas tank and getting it cleaned out. Its the one thing I never did when I bought the car 10 years ago.

After adjusting the choke and clutch cable, it seemed to stop, but started again a couple months later.

Valves need adjusting too.

Thanks for taking the time to throw some ideas out.


Last edited by difuria on Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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klroger
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Do you have warm air going to the air cleaner & is the heat riser warming up?? I wonder if your getting a bit of carb / intake icing as you mentioned it started with the cooler weather... Just a thought???
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Try applying the brakes while driving with engine at about half throttle in 1st gear. If the clutch is slipping you will hear the engine speed up without feeling a corresponding increase in ground speed. Start pressing the brakes easily and increase pressure, harder and harder. Either the engine will slow down or the car will. If the car slows down and the engine doesn't, the clutch is slipping. If the engine and the car both slow, the clutch is holding.
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difuria
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

klroger wrote:
Do you have warm air going to the air cleaner & is the heat riser warming up?? I wonder if your getting a bit of carb / intake icing as you mentioned it started with the cooler weather... Just a thought???


Warm air is going to the air cleaner. All three hoses connected. One from the oil fill and the other two preheat hoses. The heat riser is warming up. I had to replace the old intake years ago because it was completely clogged with carbon.


Last edited by difuria on Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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difuria
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Jeff Geisen wrote:
Tune up time. Ignition first. Sounds to be maybe dwell, bad condenser…


Thanks Jeff. Appreciate your suggestions. I'll drill down on it
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difuria
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

wdfifteen wrote:
Try applying the brakes while driving with engine at about half throttle in 1st gear. If the clutch is slipping you will hear the engine speed up without feeling a corresponding increase in ground speed. Start pressing the brakes easily and increase pressure, harder and harder. Either the engine will slow down or the car will. If the car slows down and the engine doesn't, the clutch is slipping. If the engine and the car both slow, the clutch is holding.


I'll give it a try when the rain stops. I should've thought of that. LOL
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rcooled
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Sounds like a bad condenser. Replace it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Frankly, it sounds more like an ignition problem to me, but it's easy to rule out the clutch.

The problem could be in any part of the ignition system, but it's pretty common for "misfire under load" to be something in the secondary system (plugs, wires, cap, rotor) to break down under load. Start at the spark plugs and work your way back.
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difuria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

klroger wrote:
Do you have warm air going to the air cleaner & is the heat riser warming up?? I wonder if your getting a bit of carb / intake icing as you mentioned it started with the cooler weather... Just a thought???


I finally got a chance to work on it today. I adjusted the choke, fuel mixture, and idle rpm...and after it ran for awhile the manifold neck was icing up. I guess I'll have to check the heat risers for clogs the next time I pull the motor. Ran it around the block a few times and didn't have the original issue.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch Slipping or Engine Miss? Reply with quote

Heat risers clogged most likely since it runs ok once warmed up.
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