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volkaholic1 Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2004 Posts: 781 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:19 pm Post subject: themostat position sensor |
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i have an ad on the samba, but this is a good place to discuss this invention
i am a big believer in running thermostat flaps on air cooled street VW. I have invented a sensor that mounts to the stat bracket and reads back a voltage to a small gauge, 0= closed, 12v= full open, 67v= half open, you get the idea. so if you are a total tech / engine geak, you will like this.
basics you get the sensor, the gauge and 2 mounting brackets
this will work on all type 1 and type iv engines
i can supply a new stat if needed
i can supply any stat parts needed
i can supply dual air temp gauges if needed, i like to measure actual air temp going into the engine and actual air temp at the stat
i have learned alot so far, in a stock bug, the incoming air is heated 30-40F before going into the engine! yep
temp at the stat runs around 200-210F, keeps it all nice an dry
when driving under "normal" conditions, i can watch the stat slowly cycle, as it controls the temp of the engine. pretty neat to watch, i have never seen my stat go full open. _________________ Volkaholic |
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virusdoc Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2018 Posts: 518 Location: Durham, NC, USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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volkaholic1 wrote: |
i have an ad on the samba, but this is a good place to discuss this invention
i am a big believer in running thermostat flaps on air cooled street VW. I have invented a sensor that mounts to the stat bracket and reads back a voltage to a small gauge, 0= closed, 12v= full open, 67v= half open, you get the idea. so if you are a total tech / engine geak, you will like this.
basics you get the sensor, the gauge and 2 mounting brackets
this will work on all type 1 and type iv engines
i can supply a new stat if needed
i can supply any stat parts needed
i can supply dual air temp gauges if needed, i like to measure actual air temp going into the engine and actual air temp at the stat
i have learned alot so far, in a stock bug, the incoming air is heated 30-40F before going into the engine! yep
temp at the stat runs around 200-210F, keeps it all nice an dry
when driving under "normal" conditions, i can watch the stat slowly cycle, as it controls the temp of the engine. pretty neat to watch, i have never seen my stat go full open. |
This is a cool idea. I just reinstalled my thermostat after not running it all summer, but in the winter my oil was rarely breaking 120 F even with prolonged, spirited driving. But I am nervous as hell having it in there, worried it will fail and fry my engine, which I just got tuned the way I like it. I feel like closed flaps would fry the heads before the oil temp even got a chance to spike above the normal range.
Kudos to you for the ingenuity. _________________ 1976 Convertible Super Beetle, "June Bug".
FI-->34PICT3 carb conversion-->now dual 40 IDFs
Self-rebuilt 1904 (after totally botching a 1641 rebuild, cussing a lot, and throwing lots of cash in the fire) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Somehow I've lived without this for 50 years.
I'm good. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Great idea! I am definitely interested! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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volkaholic1 Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2004 Posts: 781 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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i should have included a pic
is there a way to include a video? _________________ Volkaholic
Last edited by volkaholic1 on Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Virudoc, your worries are totally unfounded. The stock thermostat never fails closed, always open. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3475 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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I did that in the late 70's on my 64 Baja. Way cruder than you. I used the flap arm and a wire to ground a light hanging under my dash. |
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volkaholic1 Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2004 Posts: 781 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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i carry all the type 1 and type iv flap parts
i also like to install air temp sensors, to really see what is going on. _________________ Volkaholic |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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I like this idea, just for fun. Do you have pictures of how you mount it? _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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virusdoc Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2018 Posts: 518 Location: Durham, NC, USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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oprn wrote: |
Virudoc, your worries are totally unfounded. The stock thermostat never fails closed, always open. |
And I do have a stock thermostat. Or rather, the Awesome Powdercoat 65 C rebuilt one.
My concern was about something jamming up the linkage. My heads have more casting flash in that passage than I would like, and I am just paranoid. When I check it after a 30 minute run, it is at least 75% expanded, and there is hot air coming out of my heater ducts. So you're right. This doesn't stop the anxiety. _________________ 1976 Convertible Super Beetle, "June Bug".
FI-->34PICT3 carb conversion-->now dual 40 IDFs
Self-rebuilt 1904 (after totally botching a 1641 rebuild, cussing a lot, and throwing lots of cash in the fire) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Some people never have enough gauges.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5446 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Glenn wrote: |
Some people never have enough gauges.
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It's just not complete without a tachometer on the hood. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4026 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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I like the idea…
My thought is to use my MS3 ECU to control a stepper motor that will open or close the thermostat rod depending on the temperature of the heads or air flowing by….
I’ll have to do a little research…… _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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clonebug wrote: |
I like the idea…
My thought is to use my MS3 ECU to control a stepper motor that will open or close the thermostat rod depending on the temperature of the heads or air flowing by….
I’ll have to do a little research…… |
And then there's people that say you don't need the thermostat and flaps. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:08 am Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Yes and we could all go back to chasing and stabbing our supper with sharp sticks and pounding seeds between two rocks too but the average lifespan in those days was about 35 years old.
My toothless uncle didn’t believe in dentistry either… but he had to give steaks a pass.
Technology has moved on from the no temperature control days boys for good reason. Why go back?
I suppose this is a bit overkill but I have always wondered about my type 4 thermostat if it is really opening all the way or not on the highway. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:24 am Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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Glenn wrote: |
Somehow I've lived without this for 50 years.
I'm good. |
Glenn, Why do you poo poo people being innovative. Information is a good thing. What ideas do you have? |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:27 am Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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clonebug wrote: |
I like the idea…
My thought is to use my MS3 ECU to control a stepper motor that will open or close the thermostat rod depending on the temperature of the heads or air flowing by….
I’ll have to do a little research…… |
Entirely possible but you would forfeit the fail safe simplicity of the stock mechanical system. On the plus side it could be a more accurate way of maintaining temperature. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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bedlamite Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 180 Location: WI
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:39 am Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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I was thinking about a linear actuator and temp switch to actuate the flaps. I've been using a mechanical choke cable to pull the flaps closed during warm up, with a return spring to pull them open. |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5593 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:37 am Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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to make the flaps electronic controlled you will need to program a PID loop. Wish I had the engine flaps that had the arm on them to control an intake flap on the air cleaner. Sure sign of where the flaps are. Instead I ascribed a line on the end of a pivot pin on the engine flaps. Line at 3-9 o'clock, flaps closed. Line at 6-12 o'clock flaps open. _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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scottyrocks Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016 Posts: 2645 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:21 am Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor |
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bedlamite wrote: |
I've been using a mechanical choke cable to pull the flaps closed during warm up, with a return spring to pull them open. |
I had posted a thread outlining the same basic idea, except with my car's stale air throttle ring. Let's just say the comments were less than positive. What if I forget to open it? How will I know when it should be opened, given the difference between oil and head temperature? How do I know when the engine is actually warmed up, and not already too hot?
I'd like to know how you would approach this. _________________ “If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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