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themostat position sensor
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volkaholic1
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:19 pm    Post subject: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

i have an ad on the samba, but this is a good place to discuss this invention

i am a big believer in running thermostat flaps on air cooled street VW. I have invented a sensor that mounts to the stat bracket and reads back a voltage to a small gauge, 0= closed, 12v= full open, 67v= half open, you get the idea. so if you are a total tech / engine geak, you will like this.

basics you get the sensor, the gauge and 2 mounting brackets
this will work on all type 1 and type iv engines

i can supply a new stat if needed
i can supply any stat parts needed
i can supply dual air temp gauges if needed, i like to measure actual air temp going into the engine and actual air temp at the stat

i have learned alot so far, in a stock bug, the incoming air is heated 30-40F before going into the engine! yep
temp at the stat runs around 200-210F, keeps it all nice an dry

when driving under "normal" conditions, i can watch the stat slowly cycle, as it controls the temp of the engine. pretty neat to watch, i have never seen my stat go full open.
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virusdoc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

volkaholic1 wrote:
i have an ad on the samba, but this is a good place to discuss this invention

i am a big believer in running thermostat flaps on air cooled street VW. I have invented a sensor that mounts to the stat bracket and reads back a voltage to a small gauge, 0= closed, 12v= full open, 67v= half open, you get the idea. so if you are a total tech / engine geak, you will like this.

basics you get the sensor, the gauge and 2 mounting brackets
this will work on all type 1 and type iv engines

i can supply a new stat if needed
i can supply any stat parts needed
i can supply dual air temp gauges if needed, i like to measure actual air temp going into the engine and actual air temp at the stat

i have learned alot so far, in a stock bug, the incoming air is heated 30-40F before going into the engine! yep
temp at the stat runs around 200-210F, keeps it all nice an dry

when driving under "normal" conditions, i can watch the stat slowly cycle, as it controls the temp of the engine. pretty neat to watch, i have never seen my stat go full open.


This is a cool idea. I just reinstalled my thermostat after not running it all summer, but in the winter my oil was rarely breaking 120 F even with prolonged, spirited driving. But I am nervous as hell having it in there, worried it will fail and fry my engine, which I just got tuned the way I like it. I feel like closed flaps would fry the heads before the oil temp even got a chance to spike above the normal range.

Kudos to you for the ingenuity.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Somehow I've lived without this for 50 years.

I'm good.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Great idea! I am definitely interested!
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volkaholic1
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

i should have included a pic

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


is there a way to include a video?
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Virudoc, your worries are totally unfounded. The stock thermostat never fails closed, always open.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

I did that in the late 70's on my 64 Baja. Way cruder than you. I used the flap arm and a wire to ground a light hanging under my dash.
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volkaholic1
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

i carry all the type 1 and type iv flap parts

i also like to install air temp sensors, to really see what is going on.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

I like this idea, just for fun. Do you have pictures of how you mount it?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Virudoc, your worries are totally unfounded. The stock thermostat never fails closed, always open.


And I do have a stock thermostat. Or rather, the Awesome Powdercoat 65 C rebuilt one.

My concern was about something jamming up the linkage. My heads have more casting flash in that passage than I would like, and I am just paranoid. When I check it after a 30 minute run, it is at least 75% expanded, and there is hot air coming out of my heater ducts. So you're right. This doesn't stop the anxiety. Shocked
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Some people never have enough gauges.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Some people never have enough gauges.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It's just not complete without a tachometer on the hood. Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

I like the idea…
My thought is to use my MS3 ECU to control a stepper motor that will open or close the thermostat rod depending on the temperature of the heads or air flowing by….
I’ll have to do a little research……
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:
I like the idea…
My thought is to use my MS3 ECU to control a stepper motor that will open or close the thermostat rod depending on the temperature of the heads or air flowing by….
I’ll have to do a little research……

And then there's people that say you don't need the thermostat and flaps.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Yes and we could all go back to chasing and stabbing our supper with sharp sticks and pounding seeds between two rocks too but the average lifespan in those days was about 35 years old.

My toothless uncle didn’t believe in dentistry either… but he had to give steaks a pass.

Technology has moved on from the no temperature control days boys for good reason. Why go back?

I suppose this is a bit overkill but I have always wondered about my type 4 thermostat if it is really opening all the way or not on the highway.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Somehow I've lived without this for 50 years.

I'm good.


Glenn, Why do you poo poo people being innovative. Information is a good thing. What ideas do you have?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:
I like the idea…
My thought is to use my MS3 ECU to control a stepper motor that will open or close the thermostat rod depending on the temperature of the heads or air flowing by….
I’ll have to do a little research……

Entirely possible but you would forfeit the fail safe simplicity of the stock mechanical system. On the plus side it could be a more accurate way of maintaining temperature.
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bedlamite
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

I was thinking about a linear actuator and temp switch to actuate the flaps. I've been using a mechanical choke cable to pull the flaps closed during warm up, with a return spring to pull them open.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

to make the flaps electronic controlled you will need to program a PID loop. Wink Wish I had the engine flaps that had the arm on them to control an intake flap on the air cleaner. Sure sign of where the flaps are. Instead I ascribed a line on the end of a pivot pin on the engine flaps. Line at 3-9 o'clock, flaps closed. Line at 6-12 o'clock flaps open. Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: themostat position sensor Reply with quote

bedlamite wrote:
I've been using a mechanical choke cable to pull the flaps closed during warm up, with a return spring to pull them open.


I had posted a thread outlining the same basic idea, except with my car's stale air throttle ring. Let's just say the comments were less than positive. What if I forget to open it? How will I know when it should be opened, given the difference between oil and head temperature? How do I know when the engine is actually warmed up, and not already too hot?

I'd like to know how you would approach this.
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