Author |
Message |
61 BUS Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005 Posts: 692 Location: Tucson, Arizona
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:41 am Post subject: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
I bought my '76 standard beetle a few years ago. One of the previous owners had converted it to a carburetor and I've been driving it that way. I've collected two complete sets of fuel injection parts over the last couple of years and was intending to do the conversion myself, but never had the time. It's now time for an engine rebuild, which I'm having my mechanic do. He's familiar with the FI system and is going to convert it back for me. I've owned two previous '76 beetles before, one of which I bought brand new from the dealer, and loved the way they ran and drove. I'm looking forward to having the car back to original. _________________ 61 Bus, 71 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4390 Location: Stuck in Ohio
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lost69Convertible Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020 Posts: 436 Location: Rhode Island
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Most mechanics today are the #1 enemy of the Bosch L-Jet system. The P.O. of my Beetle took it to a highly regarded Fuel Injection mechanic in this area. Highly regarded and very expensive for older cars of all types: BMW, Jaguar, Porsche etc. That mechanic butchered the FI in my car.
Here’s my best advice: make sure your mechanic intends to install the L-Jet system in stock configuration. Install all of it. The only exception to this rule is the EGR (most here will agree). _________________ 1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9879 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
When that injection system is performing as designed, it is the smoothest running one I know of! There is always a slight hesitation on a hard launch, off the line. But in normal driving, that flat spot does not show itself.
The best part is the lack of tuning! No more dicking around with a carburetor twisting screws! No more resetting a choke or checking the accelerator pump stream. It is all being controlled. Makes for some straight forward easy driving. Best running Bug I have driven was that 77 I refurbished. Wish that I was able to have kept it.
Have fun in it! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
61 BUS Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005 Posts: 692 Location: Tucson, Arizona
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Lost69Convertible wrote: |
Most mechanics today are the #1 enemy of the Bosch L-Jet system. The P.O. of my Beetle took it to a highly regarded Fuel Injection mechanic in this area. Highly regarded and very expensive for older cars of all types: BMW, Jaguar, Porsche etc. That mechanic butchered the FI in my car.
Here’s my best advice: make sure your mechanic intends to install the L-Jet system in stock configuration. Install all of it. The only exception to this rule is the EGR (most here will agree). |
We're installing the correct L-Jetronic system and the engine will go back to 100% factory stock. I have supplied him with two complete original late Beetle FI systems that I purchased on The Samba from folks that went the other way. _________________ 61 Bus, 71 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7274 Location: NOVA
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Would be a nice extra if you could get your mechanic to document his build back to FI! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Franklinstower Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Question: have you sourced a gasket kit for the FI system? I thought most of the FI gaskets are not available anymore.
I'd love to rebuild my '75 fi bug engine, but I'm worried about getting it back together with a lack of the gaskets. As others have said, it's such a smooth running engine. So I might do nothing but enjoy it as is. _________________ '89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1417 Location: Westfield, MA.
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Franklinstower wrote: |
Question: have you sourced a gasket kit for the FI system? I thought most of the FI gaskets are not available anymore.
I'd love to rebuild my '75 fi bug engine, but I'm worried about getting it back together with a lack of the gaskets. As others have said, it's such a smooth running engine. So I might do nothing but enjoy it as is. |
There aren't many that are too FI specific and can be easily reproduced. The only place I've ever found the plenum gasket is BugCity in CT. He has other gaskets too...sometimes he's not cheap though |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1417 Location: Westfield, MA.
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
When that injection system is performing as designed, it is the smoothest running one I know of! There is always a slight hesitation on a hard launch, off the line. But in normal driving, that flat spot does not show itself.
The best part is the lack of tuning! No more dicking around with a carburetor twisting screws! No more resetting a choke or checking the accelerator pump stream. It is all being controlled. Makes for some straight forward easy driving. Best running Bug I have driven was that 77 I refurbished. Wish that I was able to have kept it.
Have fun in it! |
VW Jimbo, and 61 Bus I totally agree. When sorted it is THE best system. I love my '75. As far as that slight hesitation, I made a small mod to my distributor. I originally did it to clean up the idle with my 2280 cam. (excellent with the FI) A side benefit seems to be the elimination of that hesitation, or flat spot. The way it is now I run 10 degrees at idle and a max of 32. I believe it's the cam that allows me to run up to 32 with no detonation. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9879 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
MuzzcoVW wrote: |
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
When that injection system is performing as designed, it is the smoothest running one I know of! There is always a slight hesitation on a hard launch, off the line. But in normal driving, that flat spot does not show itself.
The best part is the lack of tuning! No more dicking around with a carburetor twisting screws! No more resetting a choke or checking the accelerator pump stream. It is all being controlled. Makes for some straight forward easy driving. Best running Bug I have driven was that 77 I refurbished. Wish that I was able to have kept it.
Have fun in it! |
VW Jimbo, and 61 Bus I totally agree. When sorted it is THE best system. I love my '75. As far as that slight hesitation, I made a small mod to my distributor. I originally did it to clean up the idle with my 2280 cam. (excellent with the FI) A side benefit seems to be the elimination of that hesitation, or flat spot. The way it is now I run 10 degrees at idle and a max of 32. I believe it's the cam that allows me to run up to 32 with no detonation. |
Sounds like a great bandaid! The issue is the long intake tubes. As it was taught to me. The rush of air takes a few seconds to travel to fill the cylinders on the very onset, from the AFM. Not a big deal, but enough of one to cause that slight hesitation. It is one of many things that makes these cars so fun!
Let me know how the cam reacts. Every cam that was tried, high lighted that flat spot. I am not sure why. Really wishing I had become a mechanical engineer! Damn it! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
61 BUS Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005 Posts: 692 Location: Tucson, Arizona
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Franklinstower wrote: |
Question: have you sourced a gasket kit for the FI system? I thought most of the FI gaskets are not available anymore.
I'd love to rebuild my '75 fi bug engine, but I'm worried about getting it back together with a lack of the gaskets. As others have said, it's such a smooth running engine. So I might do nothing but enjoy it as is. |
For the gaskets that are no longer available, my mechanic was able to reproduce the necessary gaskets in the shop by cutting gasket stock to the correct profile. _________________ 61 Bus, 71 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lost69Convertible Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020 Posts: 436 Location: Rhode Island
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Hi 61 Bus - I’d like to suggest you take a few pictures of the engine compartment now and as the work progresses. You can post them here for comments. _________________ 1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible |
|
Back to top |
|
|
61 BUS Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005 Posts: 692 Location: Tucson, Arizona
|
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
The engine has been out of the car as it's being rebuilt, and that's almost done. Once it's installed, I'll post some pictures. _________________ 61 Bus, 71 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
61 BUS Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005 Posts: 692 Location: Tucson, Arizona
|
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Just drove the car back home today with the (original to the car) engine rebuilt. It's back to fuel injection!
_________________ 61 Bus, 71 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DesignBuild Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2016 Posts: 314 Location: TEXAS
|
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
If I were you I would get those wires near the belt tied down. If you don't they will get wrapped around the alternator or crankshaft pulley.
Another route to go is to install the Mexican Beetle fuel injection. The only thing in the manifold is air. The fuel is injected at the intake valve. Modern fuel injection systems have dry intake manifolds (no fuel and air mixture).
I am working on a system adapting the Ford EEC-IV sequential fuel injection to my 1972 Super. I may have to use a chip to change the Ford firing order to that of the VW. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
61 BUS wrote: |
Just drove the car back home today with the (original to the car) engine rebuilt. It's back to fuel injection! |
Slick! You won't be sorry. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
DesignBuild wrote: |
If I were you I would get those wires near the belt tied down. If you don't they will get wrapped around the alternator or crankshaft pulley.
Another route to go is to install the Mexican Beetle fuel injection. The only thing in the manifold is air. The fuel is injected at the intake valve. Modern fuel injection systems have dry intake manifolds (no fuel and air mixture).
I am working on a system adapting the Ford EEC-IV sequential fuel injection to my 1972 Super. I may have to use a chip to change the Ford firing order to that of the VW. |
Those wires are usually pretty stiff, and not really long enough to get under the belt, you have to try pretty hard to F them up.
And L-jet's injectors are at the ports, the only time there's fuel in the manifold is during cold starts. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DesignBuild Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2016 Posts: 314 Location: TEXAS
|
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Is this the same system that was used in the early American Rabbits where there is continuous injection?
What were some folks referring to when they were talking about hesitation? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MTT3107 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2021 Posts: 255 Location: KY
|
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
Glad that you are happy with your once again fuel injected bug !
But that engine compartment is the stuff of nightmares ! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Back to Fuel Injection |
|
|
DesignBuild wrote: |
Is this the same system that was used in the early American Rabbits where there is continuous injection? |
No, the Rabbit CIS is basically K-jet, apples and oranges compared to L-jet. Injection pulse length is determined by air flow, RPM and temperature, vacuum levels manipulate fuel pressure to richen or lean with load variations. It's batch fire so each cylinder gets 1/2 of what it needs onto the intake valve each revolution, two revs make a cycle.
It's dirt simple and almost bulletproof, most issues result from vacuum leaks or old corroded wire terminals, or dumbshit mechanics who think it's witchcraft and don't make an effort to understand it. Once you open up your mind and realise how it thinks it's easier to adjust than a carb. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|