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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:44 pm Post subject: Hall sender help needed. |
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Think I may have a bad Hall sender even though some aspects of it check out. More tests soon to make a final decision, but 70% sure it has a problem.
The question is what to do?
This is the one I bought from BD about 3 years ago.
And this is their alternative choice, also from BD.
So the questions. How is it possible you can buy the entire dizzy, which includes the Hall sender for way less than just the sending unit itself?
A couple of possibiities. 1. The 90 buck one is used in a bunch of other cars and is made in large multiples, where as the buck and a half T3 specific sending unit is essentially NLA, except in small numbers, which make its manufacture expensive. 2. The 90er is a Chinese POS and won't last longer than 3 years. 3. The 1.5 C note unit is way better and should be bought without hesitation. 4. Because the complete dizzy unit is made for other cars and will work fine in a T3, the better?/more expensive unit is different and won't even fit in the complete less expensive dizzy I already have.
So what would you do?
Duncan |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 447
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:41 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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Well,, hall units are, apparently a wee bit more than when I went thru your issue.
Replacing a hall unit is a bit of a challenge, vs dropping in a dizzy with all the goodies.
Even if that dizzy is Chinese, I'd go that way. |
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nmerrill
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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I have replaced just the Hall sensor in an Audi dist before. Not even the carrier, etc, just the sensor. Ofcourse, if your connector is failing that won't help.
I have a few Seimens sensors left from that adventure. Wonder if they are compatible?
The Audi diszy was a Bosch unit - wasn't the OE VW dist also? |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4791
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| DuncanS wrote: |
So what would you do?
Duncan |
i would buy both. you've seen the need to have a spare for a quick diagnostic test. the Chinese one will get you going if that is indeed the problem. but having bought one myself, they are a cheaply made, unsatisfying part so i would also rebuild the original dist as leisure time permits.
check the bottom cog on the original and see if there is up and down end play. they all wobble around the roll pin, that's okay but i have a high mile dist that has a large amount of end play which should be corrected by new shims. this process of replacing the Hall and finding/doing shims adds time you may not want to take right now but you'll end up with a dist that's superior in the long run to the Chinese one.
you're driving a vintage vehicle. always good to have spares.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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interesting that the dist doesn't have a manufacturer.
somebody must make it....
pretty sure you know the right answers to your questions.
unfortunately, it sounds like you may have disposed of your OG unit.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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i mean, for 90 bux it seems like a small price to pay , if only to diagnose the current hall sender? whats the worse that could happen?
_________________
'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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Hmmm. No clearcut choice here. However, it does seem like one of the best solutions might be to find a NOS dizzy or a mechanically good used one and toss the new sensor into it.
Any possible sources for these choices? NOS seems unlikely.
Duncan |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17154
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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The replacement Bosch Hall assembly may not fit in the knock off distributor you purchased a few years ago from BD.
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nmerrill
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| your welcome to one of the Siemens Sensors I have if it's compatible. I can send a pic of one. |
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plummerdesign
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2010
Posts: 540
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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Duncan,
Yes, the Hall sender can go bad. But what I have found is that the harness going to the distributor is usually the culprit. The wires are tiny, brittle, and prone to corrosion too. KYLE automotive crafts a fine replacement harness that goes in with very little work.
I have done this for several 1984-1985 1.9 Vanagons while under restoration and they never exhibited the problem again.
Best to you in remedying the syndrome.
Jeffery : )
https://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/
_________________
It is old and green and it makes me grin.
1984 Westfalia 1.9
Last edited by plummerdesign on Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4351
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| plummerdesign wrote: |
Duncan,
Yes, the Hall sender can go bad. But what I have found is that the harness going to the distributor is usually the culprit. The wires are tiny, brittle, and prone to corrosion too. KYLE automotive crafts a fine replacement harness that goes in with very little work.
I have done this for several 1984-1985 1.9 Vanagons while under restoration and they never exhibited the problem again.
Best to you in remedying the syndrome.
Jeffery : ) |
I did a web search, but didn't land on "KYLE automotive crafts", so perhaps a link might help?
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4791
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| DuncanS wrote: |
Any possible sources for these choices? NOS seems unlikely.
Duncan |
those eBay rascals in Latvia had some NOS for around $450 a while back.... i just bought a used one on eBay for $20 that i'll rebuild if it has end play or just test and leave as is if it is tight. i'm not keen to replace a working Hall sensor.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| plummerdesign wrote: |
Duncan,
Yes, the Hall sender can go bad. But what I have found is that the harness going to the distributor is usually the culprit. The wires are tiny, brittle, and prone to corrosion too. KYLE automotive crafts a fine replacement harness that goes in with very little work.
I have done this for several 1984-1985 1.9 Vanagons while under restoration and they never exhibited the problem again.
Best to you in remedying the syndrome.
Jeffery : )
https://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/ |
BobbyB--Did you see this post?
PlummerD--I have been suspecting all along that this has been the problem. The fact that it went away once when brushing my hands over the wires tells me a wire is likely the suspect. Hall sender triggers the ECU for fuel, but who knows what kind of signal is actuating getting there?
About to pull the trigger on the harness.
Duncan |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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The aftermarket distributor is made by or for JP Group.
The Bosch hall sender is pricey, I'm wondering if it's made in China too, like a bunch of Bosch parts these days....
I've been experiencing with re-placing chinese hall senders into Bosch distributors lately. Testing one unit right now on an engine I built. So far so good.
I need to make a tool to drive the pin out, that thing is a massive pita to drive out bc the ends are mushroom riveted....
It's the no wire hall sender which I prefer. Just tapping some M4 threads and good to go.
2.1L only.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I need to make a tool to drive the pin out, that thing is a massive pita to drive out bc the ends are mushroom riveted.... I find that careful Dremel grinding of a mushroomed end or riveted head can work wonders. Sometimes I use it to create a flat so I can center punch the pin to drill if the peening is into a countersunk hole. Duncan
It's the no wire hall sender which I prefer. Just tapping some M4 threads and good to go. Tapping M4 threads? No wire? Is there no plug which sends signals to the ECU? Some kind of bluetooth connections with an ECU receiver? How do it get juice to send a signal? Clearly, I am misunderstanding something here. Duncan
2.1L only. |
From a Van Cafe ad about their aftermarket dizzy for the 2.1. "Please note that the dust shield on the distributor cap has the wrong firing order stamped on it. The firing order stamped on the shield is for an inline 4cyl Volkswagen watercooled motor and not a Vanagon (the cap works on both types of engines)"
What inline engine? Is this engine something relatively recent and would it be possible to buy a new OEM dizzy intended for that vehicle which would work in a '91 T3?
Confused in NH, Duncan |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 447
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The aftermarket distributor is made by or for JP Group.
The Bosch hall sender is pricey, I'm wondering if it's made in China too, like a bunch of Bosch parts these days....
I've been experiencing with re-placing chinese hall senders into Bosch distributors lately. Testing one unit right now on an engine I built. So far so good.
I need to make a tool to drive the pin out, that thing is a massive pita to drive out bc the ends are mushroom riveted....
It's the no wire hall sender which I prefer. Just tapping some M4 threads and good to go.
2.1L only. |
"Whatcha talking bout Willis?" |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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Late replacement distributor had a different hall sender with no wire is what I'm saying. The stupid internal wires add problems to the table bc the pick up is on the opposite side of the connector.
Bosch has both models:
Left is no wire style, right is wire style hall sender
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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Wait a minute! Aren't the pickups 180º apart? I must be missing something here. If you move the plug wires around 180º, does that fix the issue?
Source??
Duncan |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 450
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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Wires stay the same. It's the rotor that determines which plug fires. Fuel is batch fire so rotating the hall sensor 180 deg has no affect at all. If was a 5 cylinder, that would be different.
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_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me
Last edited by DigiMatrix on Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 447
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Hall sender help needed. |
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@ALIKA T3, thank you for this actionable info!
@DigiMatrix, thank you for the enlightenment!
Having had issues with the "wired" hall generator version, I've never felt comfortable with that design. The wires just need to move a little, and the metal "window" cap chops up those wires.
Am I correct to feel that the "non-wired" hall generator is an upgrade in regards to,, dependability/reliability?
If so, what all is involved in retrofitting to the "non-wired" version?
Part number?
Thank you. |
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