Lubrication for the flywheel ring gear.

[Vanapplebomb]

Let’s put all the personal attacks aside. If you have a problem with the way someone rubs off on you, send a PM and hash it out privately or message a moderator. We don’t need to hear it here.

Back to the technical stuff…

What is the exact damage to the ring gear teeth you are seeing? I would love to see a picture if you have it. Just wondering what “wear” constitutes in this instance.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Wulfthang]

[Wulfthang]

[Vanapplebomb]

Not once have I personally attacked you…

Anyways, back to the subject matter.

I get the feeling that this may be a bandaid on a bigger problem. If your flywheel isn’t old, but is showing significant wear, I think it wise to find out why this is happening happening in the first place, because it shouldn’t be an issue. Something else is going on.

So, what exactly is happening to your flywheel?
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[PhillipM]

I will say the only times I've seen this issue has been:

a) A batch of forged flywheels a firm had made with no hardening. They just expected EN19T to be hard enough as it was, little naive.
Teeth wore out on all the flywheels within a year to the point that starters wouldn't engage properly.

b) A couple of installs over the years where the starter was either misaligned on a mounting adaptor plate slighty, or wasn't setup with enough clearance for the gear to engage cleanly when it gets fired out of the starter. You want about double the usual gear clearance for an engaging starter vs a constant mesh.

[Wulfthang]

I never said that my flywheel ring gear was abnormally worn. I said it was noticeably worn but not broken or worn out. I said the problem with my spinning gears was not wear but a sticky Bendix Helical. My ring gear is worn but not worn out There is no problem or issue!!! Read the posts!

This discussion was about my experiment of using lubrication on the gear teeth, not the condition of my ring gear. And before you go "but why do the ring gear teeth need lube if they're not worn out"? Get real! If they were worn out, no lube would help them! Maybe a little lube will help them from wearing totally out.

This ring gear is old. It's part of an early KEP 1200 hooked up to a 1974 Capri V6 engine. I got it in 1995 after it had been sitting in an abandoned kit car for at least ten years. It was worn but serviceable when I got it. It's still worn but serviceable and I'd like to keep it that way. Hence the lube experiment.

Hey, I get it. New ideas can be frightening, especially if your mind is locked on "the way it's always been". There's people who cross lock their seat belts because they "never wore them before and ain't going to start now".

But don't worry! Unlike a seat belt ticket, there are no repercussions to not trying it. (Except for unnecessary ring gear wear) You don't have too! However, I did try it and it worked for me.

The science behind the super sticky dry gear lubricant is valid. Why not try a new modern lubricant for an old problem. Yeah, it really is a problem and has been since the day it was invented. Look at it from a design engineers point of view.

How to start the engine? A starter with a ring gear was finally accepted as the standard but golly gee whiz it's horrible what's happening to those gears! Let's try some oil! Nope! Just made a mess and attracted crud. Grease! Nope same problems! Oh well! We'll just call the Ring Gear a Consumable like tires or air filters! It'll last as long as the engine...maybe!

I tried a solution to what I saw as a problem. It worked. What is your problem with that????

[dustymojave]

No fear to try new here. But as I said before your wear issues suggest a problem with the flywheel or the starter. You COULD contact Kennedy Engineering to discuss it with them. Some of the employees have been there since before your adapter was made. I drove past the place yesterday.

Wulfthang, you HAVE been attacking people on a personal level:

"My sixty five year old is running great with no lube...why fix it if it ain't broke....I'm an expert on everything because I set the lash on long chains....big bold NEVER'S...etc. etc. "

If you have personal issues with me, take it to PMs as Vanapple said.

And oprn you too have been getting personal.
"Conformity, it’s all about conformity! Don’t rock the boat someone could fall in and discover the water is only 6” deep and we didn’t need the boat after all! "

What's your issue with those who disagree with a need for that fix? It's fine if you agree with Wulfthang's idea. I've not said it should never be tried. You guys act like Vanapple and I are attacking Wulfthang. We are NOT. We just suggest there may be some other problem that he's not looking into.
Why are you guys so touchy? It's as if I told a woman that her lipstick is smeared and it turn out that it's her time of the month. WOW!

Am I a bad guy if I indicate that I have some past experience in the field? or is it better for people to spout off on subjects they know nothing about? Of course we're on the internet here and a large percentage of the "information" slung around is entirely baseless. If you cannot handle suggestions from others, then why post on an internet forum?

Even PhillipM who has had many disagreements with me seems to concur with me and Vanapple on this subject.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[Wulfthang]

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

This whole post is absurd grease the ring gear if it makes you happy cool. A little cant hurt. But why make a post about it seems pretty silly. You guys might as well be arguing about what color M&M's taste better.

[dustymojave]

[Wulfthang]

[cbeck]

[Vanapplebomb]

Wulfthang, didn’t you just start this thread not long ago?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9989619&highlight=#9989619

…And this is the picture you took of your ring gear?

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

Ok now I understand... trying to convince everyone thru multiple posts that grease is the genius move on a worn ring gear. You could of had the motor out and fixed the problem Months ago. If you don't get the answer you want the first time try try again. I'm guessing this is a (purchased) build and the ability to complete the repair is the real problem? Why not take detailed pictures of the motor area and we can come up with a plan. Take it one step at a time

[Wulfthang]

I never stated that my ring gear was in perfect shape. I stated numerous times that it was worn. I also said numerous times that my car starts just fine. I never said to use grease. This thread was about dry lubrication. No, this car was not a store bought build. I built it in my shop over a years time starting with a partially completed frame. I had the engine and transaxle left over from another project. When I retired and shut my on-the-side firearms business down, I kept my machine shop.

The amount of negativity that has come out over this post is disturbing and the insults continue. "Woke? I'm guessing this is a (purchased) build and the ability to complete the repair is the real problem?" Really?

I spent half my life as a LEO so insults just roll off like water off a Ducks back. However, it does show a distinct lack of intelligence and conversational ability when you have to resort to insults to make your point. Sly innuendo, twisting statements, insults, etc. are all things I'm used to from shyster Defense Attorneys in Court when they have no valid arguments. It's no big deal.

Ok, to recap:
Never use any type of lubricant on your flywheel because it will upset the naysayers!
Don't sail out of sight of land or you'll fall off the Earth.
Humans have never landed on the Moon.
The Covid Vaccine is a good thing and all humans should get it.
Climate change is going to make the Earth uninhabitable by 2010.
Biden is an excellent President. (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth!)

[Vanapplebomb]