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Bugged Again Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2022 Posts: 162 Location: Virginia -Hampton Roads
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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What a great thread. This is in-depth and so much better than a snap shot of a section cut trying to verify how the original parts went together. I passed on an early split basket case years ago due to space in my garage shop and the rust along the heater tubes. This was before the web.
This deserves a sticky IMHO.
Thanks for documenting all your great work. |
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brian rogers Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2002 Posts: 135 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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As a 67 vert owner thank you for this. I’ll be doing this somewhere along the line. |
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toxicavenger70 Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019 Posts: 869 Location: CO
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Killer work! So question for you, do you repair all the rusted panels after you weld the heater channels in? Or are you just fitting them temporarily? |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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toxicavenger70 wrote: |
Killer work! So question for you, do you repair all the rusted panels after you weld the heater channels in? Or are you just fitting them temporarily? |
So, on a sedan I wouldn't hesitate to cut more out at once. But on a convertible the fact that they hold their shape at all is sort of miraculous. No way am I going to cut more out before I replace whats missing now. But everything will be addressed, once the floors and heater channels are full welded, and I can verify that the doors still fit acceptably, then I'll tackle the rear crossmember. It's the part that caps the back of the heater channel, and it has the lowest rear fender stud, so it's gotta get fixed. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Another 20 pictures as evidence.
Here's the jungle gym. Man I cannot wait to take it out so I stop hitting my head
first cut to separate the b pillar
you can just see the seam open between the old channel and the b pillar, Need to get a chisel in there to open it
Rather than drill out the few spot welds that hold the curved b pillar reinforcement to the channel, I used a grinder to score the channel right along the spot welds
Then bend the piece down and snap it off
Getting the rest of the bits evicted is tough and you will get all the shit in your eyes and hair. But when it looks like this you're done
Same method for the a pillar.
score and snap
There are two layers to remove in front, and they attach to the defroster tube.
Patience, and gloves
Careful to not bend the parts you need to keep. A sharp cold chisel is key
almost
Make sure to not have your eyes underneath, as ALL the dirt thats fallen down the black hole since Germany is now coming out.
Standard prep of sand everything till shiny and weld through primer
Also, dealing with the firewall
cutting out the bad, roughing in the new
this side has a bunch missing because I had to remove the past repairs.
start with the front, gotta get the flange jammed into the firewall, and stick the piece of steel defroster tube up there
Pull the tube down and get it welded to the channel
This thing is heavy, so use a jack to raise it up
In the rear, it won't go straight up because of the floor support. You need to lift the body 2" to make room, and then use the BFH to make it happen
Some jostling back and forth were needed. The body was too far back, and the channel too far forward. And, I had to notch the channel flange, because life's not perfect
Front
Here's where I didn't take a bunch of pics while horsing the floor in.
Not fun, but still better than lifting the whole body enough to get it in. Several jackstands and pryers, some judicious cursing, blood, and then it was in
Got all the pan bolts on, the 4 Napoleon hat bolts in, and the front beam bolts! Amazing! So, lets get some things tacked
A heavy weld on the a and b pillars where I can reach them in case they need to be cut
Tacked the floors in a few spots, and did the passenger side a and b pillars also.
Here's where I left it. I'll keep going with the welding tomorrow, and then experiment with removing a brace or two
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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washed all my shop coveralls, and replaced a few light bulbs so that I'd be comfy and have good light to work in. Amazing what little things like that did to make things go better. Getting started, I realized that the right firewall panel wasn't lining up right, and realized the mistake I had made. The bottom flange was tucked under the support rail plate, when it doesn't fit correctly unless you trim it to sit on top of the plate
Here is what it should look like, note the green panel is trimmed on the bottom, and that the flange looks even with the flange on the end of the heater channel
Here is the left side, you can see I'm under the support rail, and lower than the heater channel
I couldn't get it out without undoing a ton of work, so I resorted to cutting it out with the only tool that would fit, a die grinder. It's like cutting down a tree with an pocket knife. But, I got it, and once things were tight and in place..
So, the front is 90% done. The rear I need to get into the piece that closes the heater channel, and makes the transition to the fender well. I got this piece from CIP1, and it's about 80% the right shape. I think I can make it work
So this is the place where the rear crossmember, heater channel, wheel well, and rear quarter all comer together, and it's probably the first place on the car to rust
Here it is slipped in, before I've bent or beat on it. It'll do
More next week. I hope to end next week with primer and seam sealer, maybe even some matched paint blending _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Was down with cold over the weekend, so I've been a little slow getting back into the groove here
Spent some time tweaking the cip1 crossmember end. It's a bit of a puzzle because it seems like it's the right shape, but you need to do a ton of reshaping to make it correct. And in a vert, I think the mount under the seat and at the shock tower are critical, so I'm trying to get this right.
Here's what I started with vs now, and it needs more work.
From the outside. I can trim this and dolly it into place once I'm happy with the inside fit. I'll have to add some to the bottom to actually close the end of the heater channel.
From the inside, it's getting there.
This piece is substantially heavier gauge than stock, so I'll put the rubber body pad directly underneath it. The stock body has a double thickness panel, that always traps moisture and rots out.
And I made some access cuts, so I can weld the inside of the A and B pillars
Just enough to poke the mig nozzle in, and then I will weld up the cut.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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I was wondering if these Type 3 braces might be good for a vert too?
_________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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straight into both rear corners; I started by cutting out the rust from the passenger side. What was removed wasn't recognizable as part of a car
Welded a nut to the broken mount bolt on one side, and it came out. But I had to drill out the driver side bolt
I managed to make these repair panels work, but they're a pretty terrible part. They've short by about an inch, and none of the bends are exactly right. I got one trimmed to get close, and then tacked it where I could, and beat it into place, tack some more, hammer more..
you can see here I had some rust where the fender mounts blow out, and how short it is. I'll follow up with a pic of it completed. The stud is within a half inch of where it belongs. Now that I know how to bend it, I'll get the right side perfect
Here you can see the right side partially welded. I started here as the location of the mount bolt locates it, and then I'll hammer it into shape as I work towards that lower fender mount.
Doesn't look close here but I swear it'll fit
Hope to finish both corners tomorrow. Soon as this is done and the rear body bolts are in I can cut out the jungle gym (bracing). _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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toxicavenger70 Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019 Posts: 869 Location: CO
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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esde wrote: |
Hope to finish both corners tomorrow. Soon as this is done and the rear body bolts are in I can cut out the jungle gym (bracing). |
Thanks for the info. I also replaced this same panel with a CIP1 version, it was a pain to get it to work. I then made my own piece for the second layer that went on it on the inside by the heater vent. The BFH did a lot of the work for me.
Keep the progress up. And thanks for the pics. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Amazing how the verts all rot out in the same spots. When I did my vert 25ish years ago, I changed the front fire wall and top hat. I wish I'd just patched them as I'd have saved tons of hours. The top hats sold at the time where terrible like most of the sheet metal sold back then.
If I had to do it over again, I'd of bought a rust free donor body and harvested all the panels I needed from it. I'd saved 100's of hours trying to fit the horrible metal.[/img] _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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toxicavenger70 wrote: |
Thanks for the info. I also replaced this same panel with a CIP1 version, it was a pain to get it to work. I then made my own piece for the second layer that went on it on the inside by the heater vent. The BFH did a lot of the work for me.
Keep the progress up. And thanks for the pics. |
It really is a PITA to fix. I mean, the panel is better than starting with a flat piece of steel, but the work... so much welding and grinding.
It's like they made a rough model of the part and never revised it to make it actually fit. An extra inch on two sides and correct two bends and it would be 200% better.
Anyway. Back to beating on it
or cutting it, and then beating it into place.
Added some steel to fill the big gaps, this side came out better than the first.
ground the lumps down. Better, but still have some left to fill
Cut a plate to cap the lower end of the firewall. This seals the end of the heater channel, and ties much of the front of the car together, so I punched it for some big rosette welds, and then seam sealed it
Called it a day. Took the heat tubes home and ran them through the blast cabinet. Not bad, though the flapper door is missing from one of them
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Slowed down a bit, as there are some other things happening in the shop.
But I refuse to let this part of the job stall.
Fixed the passenger side cowl support. I overlapped the repair, as it gets covered with carpet.
ground
Stock, the factory threads the wiring harness through a hole in the heater channel. But nobody here is pulling the harness back to poke it through, so I cut out the "hole" and welded the edges so they aren't sharp. Now the harness just lays in
started forming the cowl support for the drivers side with a hammer and shot bag
Not bad for first attempt
Had to put a little cut in it, so it would bend where I wanted. Ill tack it and dolly it smooth before welding it in.
Just one piece left to make, and some welds to grind at the bottom of the A/B pillars, and this is a wrap! Then I cut the bracing out completely, so we can see that the doors still close correctly!! _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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So I've started on some of the next tasks on this car, so updating the last steps of the channel repairs has taken a backseat. But it's pretty well wrapped ups, though I've forgotten to take as many pictures.
Here are 2 shots of repairing the inner cowl support on the driver side. I've since cleaned up the hole where the wiring harness exits and added the opening for the heater vents. If I had a planishing hammer I could do a really nice job on this, as it is I just remind myself that it's covered by carpet.
Rough shaping
screwed in to check fit
I'm happy with it and most importantly it serves it's purpose.
Another detail, the carpet channel that I left welded to the old heater channel. It was too rusty to be bothered drilling out the spot welds, so I made a new one. 20g sheet, I cut a strip and bent it over on a piece of 1/8" steel so it wouldn't close completely
Perfect!
if you don't have access to a heavy brake, you can buy the same part from Virtanen. Here it is before I welded it in.
I'll probably finish up this thread next week after the seat belt mounts are in and everything is in some paint. Maybe a short video to better show off the details.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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56Cabrio Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2008 Posts: 1896 Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Been a minute..
I got the car back to the point where I was chasing details, and forgot to post any updates. Funny how one thing leads to another. I didn't want to weld this piece in, till I was sure all the wires to the rear of there car were intact, as it would make replacing the harness much more difficult.
But to check the lights, I had to buff out the paint and mount the fenders. So I got busy with the wheel and some 3m compound
first round
more cleaning and buffing
Typical things we run into along the way
And getting there
color matching some missing dash parts
r&r the rear brakes with 67 parts and cut some old drums
Drove myself half crazy trying to figure out why one side bearing cap would not seat. Discovered that this is wearing one 67 long axle tube, and one 68 tube. The overall lengths are the same, but the bearing sits differently in each, and the bearing caps are not interchangeable. Learn something new every day.
See how the recess for the bearing is different?
All this to say, it rolls, and all the lights work, so I can weld in that last cowl panel and get the rockers sprayed.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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figured I'd write the last pages and close the book here. Spent the last few days buttoning up loose ends, chasing details, and checking every nut and bolt to make sure I didn't forget anything. For starters, I went back to the car with a ratchet set and double checked every single bolt I touched. Cobbled together some bumpers from loose parts and swap meet stuff. Went through a bunch of the wiring and got the lights working, and even got it started. Took care of the last little bit of welding, which was the slide tracks for the vert heater outlet covers.
Glove box door was deemed too gnarly, sanded and repainted
Masked the nice bits, and shot the rockers with 2 coats of single stage. I could've rattle canned it, but the single stage paint just wears better. For the heater channels I think it was a good call
I realize there are 2 giant access holes cut in the tunnel. I have a piece cut to patch them, but it's misplaced here in the shop somewhere.
Spent some time installing a new trim kit, and running boards.
Dropped it off the stands, and drove it out into the sunshine, first time under it's own power since 2011.
Rear fender match is decent, but just a little green. The rear quarter has a crease that annoys me, but I don't have time right now to pull the window mechanism to get behind it.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out and more importantly, the owner is very pleased. If I could go back and change anything, I' might have cut out the door bracing sooner to see how things settled, and correct the door gaps. But another shop welded in the bracing and disassembled everything, so I was hoping their work was good. The passenger side door is perfect, but the driver side gap is maybe an 1/8" wider than I'd like. But still good, I'm just critical. The front needs to come up a bit as the beam is like 2" off the ground. But that's it. There's a new interior and carpet set that the owner will install next, and then I expect it will get some summer drive time. Perfect timing right?
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.
Last edited by esde on Wed May 10, 2023 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3789 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Hell yeah, another one back on the road! That was quick (I know, easy for me to say!). _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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Bugged Again Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2022 Posts: 162 Location: Virginia -Hampton Roads
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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Congratulations on some really good work. I went back and looked at the time line from start to finish and can only complement you. Not many folks could do what you’ve accomplished in such a short period if they could even do the work at all.
There are many pictures that have helped me as an owner of a convertible. The picture from Puppy67 of that inner cowl helped too. I needed to know what it looked like behind it since I may need to do an inner fender well in the same spot. |
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sportin-wood Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010 Posts: 2002 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement |
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That came out damn nice! Nice work. _________________ .
Paused 66 project bug
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"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli |
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