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Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement
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Bugged Again
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

What a great thread. This is in-depth and so much better than a snap shot of a section cut trying to verify how the original parts went together. I passed on an early split basket case years ago due to space in my garage shop and the rust along the heater tubes. This was before the web.

This deserves a sticky IMHO.

Thanks for documenting all your great work.
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brian rogers
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

As a 67 vert owner thank you for this. I’ll be doing this somewhere along the line.
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toxicavenger70
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Killer work! So question for you, do you repair all the rusted panels after you weld the heater channels in? Or are you just fitting them temporarily?
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esde
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

toxicavenger70 wrote:
Killer work! So question for you, do you repair all the rusted panels after you weld the heater channels in? Or are you just fitting them temporarily?

So, on a sedan I wouldn't hesitate to cut more out at once. But on a convertible the fact that they hold their shape at all is sort of miraculous. No way am I going to cut more out before I replace whats missing now. But everything will be addressed, once the floors and heater channels are full welded, and I can verify that the doors still fit acceptably, then I'll tackle the rear crossmember. It's the part that caps the back of the heater channel, and it has the lowest rear fender stud, so it's gotta get fixed.
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esde
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Another 20 pictures as evidence.
Here's the jungle gym. Man I cannot wait to take it out so I stop hitting my head
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first cut to separate the b pillar
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you can just see the seam open between the old channel and the b pillar, Need to get a chisel in there to open it
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Rather than drill out the few spot welds that hold the curved b pillar reinforcement to the channel, I used a grinder to score the channel right along the spot welds
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Then bend the piece down and snap it off
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Getting the rest of the bits evicted is tough and you will get all the shit in your eyes and hair. But when it looks like this you're done
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Same method for the a pillar.
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score and snap
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There are two layers to remove in front, and they attach to the defroster tube.
Patience, and gloves
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Careful to not bend the parts you need to keep. A sharp cold chisel is key
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almost
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Make sure to not have your eyes underneath, as ALL the dirt thats fallen down the black hole since Germany is now coming out.
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Standard prep of sand everything till shiny and weld through primer
Also, dealing with the firewall
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cutting out the bad, roughing in the new
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this side has a bunch missing because I had to remove the past repairs.
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start with the front, gotta get the flange jammed into the firewall, and stick the piece of steel defroster tube up there
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Pull the tube down and get it welded to the channel
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This thing is heavy, so use a jack to raise it up
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In the rear, it won't go straight up because of the floor support. You need to lift the body 2" to make room, and then use the BFH to make it happen
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Some jostling back and forth were needed. The body was too far back, and the channel too far forward. And, I had to notch the channel flange, because life's not perfect
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Front
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Here's where I didn't take a bunch of pics while horsing the floor in.
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Not fun, but still better than lifting the whole body enough to get it in. Several jackstands and pryers, some judicious cursing, blood, and then it was in
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Got all the pan bolts on, the 4 Napoleon hat bolts in, and the front beam bolts! Amazing! So, lets get some things tacked
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A heavy weld on the a and b pillars where I can reach them in case they need to be cut
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Tacked the floors in a few spots, and did the passenger side a and b pillars also.
Here's where I left it. I'll keep going with the welding tomorrow, and then experiment with removing a brace or two
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SD
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esde
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

washed all my shop coveralls, and replaced a few light bulbs so that I'd be comfy and have good light to work in. Amazing what little things like that did to make things go better. Getting started, I realized that the right firewall panel wasn't lining up right, and realized the mistake I had made. The bottom flange was tucked under the support rail plate, when it doesn't fit correctly unless you trim it to sit on top of the plate
Here is what it should look like, note the green panel is trimmed on the bottom, and that the flange looks even with the flange on the end of the heater channel
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Here is the left side, you can see I'm under the support rail, and lower than the heater channel
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I couldn't get it out without undoing a ton of work, so I resorted to cutting it out with the only tool that would fit, a die grinder. It's like cutting down a tree with an pocket knife. But, I got it, and once things were tight and in place..
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So, the front is 90% done. The rear I need to get into the piece that closes the heater channel, and makes the transition to the fender well. I got this piece from CIP1, and it's about 80% the right shape. I think I can make it work
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So this is the place where the rear crossmember, heater channel, wheel well, and rear quarter all comer together, and it's probably the first place on the car to rust
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Here it is slipped in, before I've bent or beat on it. It'll do
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More next week. I hope to end next week with primer and seam sealer, maybe even some matched paint blending
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esde
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Was down with cold over the weekend, so I've been a little slow getting back into the groove here
Spent some time tweaking the cip1 crossmember end. It's a bit of a puzzle because it seems like it's the right shape, but you need to do a ton of reshaping to make it correct. And in a vert, I think the mount under the seat and at the shock tower are critical, so I'm trying to get this right.
Here's what I started with vs now, and it needs more work.
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From the outside. I can trim this and dolly it into place once I'm happy with the inside fit. I'll have to add some to the bottom to actually close the end of the heater channel.
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From the inside, it's getting there.
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This piece is substantially heavier gauge than stock, so I'll put the rubber body pad directly underneath it. The stock body has a double thickness panel, that always traps moisture and rots out.
And I made some access cuts, so I can weld the inside of the A and B pillars
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Just enough to poke the mig nozzle in, and then I will weld up the cut.
SD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

I was wondering if these Type 3 braces might be good for a vert too?

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esde
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

straight into both rear corners; I started by cutting out the rust from the passenger side. What was removed wasn't recognizable as part of a car
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Welded a nut to the broken mount bolt on one side, and it came out. But I had to drill out the driver side bolt
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I managed to make these repair panels work, but they're a pretty terrible part. They've short by about an inch, and none of the bends are exactly right. I got one trimmed to get close, and then tacked it where I could, and beat it into place, tack some more, hammer more..
you can see here I had some rust where the fender mounts blow out, and how short it is. I'll follow up with a pic of it completed. The stud is within a half inch of where it belongs. Now that I know how to bend it, I'll get the right side perfect
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Here you can see the right side partially welded. I started here as the location of the mount bolt locates it, and then I'll hammer it into shape as I work towards that lower fender mount.
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Doesn't look close here but I swear it'll fit
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Hope to finish both corners tomorrow. Soon as this is done and the rear body bolts are in I can cut out the jungle gym (bracing).
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toxicavenger70
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

esde wrote:
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Hope to finish both corners tomorrow. Soon as this is done and the rear body bolts are in I can cut out the jungle gym (bracing).

Thanks for the info. I also replaced this same panel with a CIP1 version, it was a pain to get it to work. I then made my own piece for the second layer that went on it on the inside by the heater vent. The BFH did a lot of the work for me.

Keep the progress up. And thanks for the pics.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

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Amazing how the verts all rot out in the same spots. When I did my vert 25ish years ago, I changed the front fire wall and top hat. I wish I'd just patched them as I'd have saved tons of hours. The top hats sold at the time where terrible like most of the sheet metal sold back then.

If I had to do it over again, I'd of bought a rust free donor body and harvested all the panels I needed from it. I'd saved 100's of hours trying to fit the horrible metal.[/img]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

toxicavenger70 wrote:

Thanks for the info. I also replaced this same panel with a CIP1 version, it was a pain to get it to work. I then made my own piece for the second layer that went on it on the inside by the heater vent. The BFH did a lot of the work for me.

Keep the progress up. And thanks for the pics.

It really is a PITA to fix. I mean, the panel is better than starting with a flat piece of steel, but the work... so much welding and grinding.
It's like they made a rough model of the part and never revised it to make it actually fit. An extra inch on two sides and correct two bends and it would be 200% better.
Anyway. Back to beating on it
or cutting it, and then beating it into place.
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Added some steel to fill the big gaps, this side came out better than the first.
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ground the lumps down. Better, but still have some left to fill
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Cut a plate to cap the lower end of the firewall. This seals the end of the heater channel, and ties much of the front of the car together, so I punched it for some big rosette welds, and then seam sealed it
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Called it a day. Took the heat tubes home and ran them through the blast cabinet. Not bad, though the flapper door is missing from one of them
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SD
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esde
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Slowed down a bit, as there are some other things happening in the shop.
But I refuse to let this part of the job stall.
Fixed the passenger side cowl support. I overlapped the repair, as it gets covered with carpet.
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ground
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Stock, the factory threads the wiring harness through a hole in the heater channel. But nobody here is pulling the harness back to poke it through, so I cut out the "hole" and welded the edges so they aren't sharp. Now the harness just lays in
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started forming the cowl support for the drivers side with a hammer and shot bag
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Not bad for first attempt
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Had to put a little cut in it, so it would bend where I wanted. Ill tack it and dolly it smooth before welding it in.
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Just one piece left to make, and some welds to grind at the bottom of the A/B pillars, and this is a wrap! Then I cut the bracing out completely, so we can see that the doors still close correctly!!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

So I've started on some of the next tasks on this car, so updating the last steps of the channel repairs has taken a backseat. But it's pretty well wrapped ups, though I've forgotten to take as many pictures.
Here are 2 shots of repairing the inner cowl support on the driver side. I've since cleaned up the hole where the wiring harness exits and added the opening for the heater vents. If I had a planishing hammer I could do a really nice job on this, as it is I just remind myself that it's covered by carpet.
Rough shaping
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screwed in to check fit
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I'm happy with it and most importantly it serves it's purpose.
Another detail, the carpet channel that I left welded to the old heater channel. It was too rusty to be bothered drilling out the spot welds, so I made a new one. 20g sheet, I cut a strip and bent it over on a piece of 1/8" steel so it wouldn't close completely
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Perfect!
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if you don't have access to a heavy brake, you can buy the same part from Virtanen. Here it is before I welded it in.
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I'll probably finish up this thread next week after the seat belt mounts are in and everything is in some paint. Maybe a short video to better show off the details.
SD
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Nice work !!!!
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esde
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Been a minute..
I got the car back to the point where I was chasing details, and forgot to post any updates. Funny how one thing leads to another. I didn't want to weld this piece in, till I was sure all the wires to the rear of there car were intact, as it would make replacing the harness much more difficult.
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But to check the lights, I had to buff out the paint and mount the fenders. So I got busy with the wheel and some 3m compound
first round
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more cleaning and buffing
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Typical things we run into along the way
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And getting there
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color matching some missing dash parts
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r&r the rear brakes with 67 parts and cut some old drums
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Drove myself half crazy trying to figure out why one side bearing cap would not seat. Discovered that this is wearing one 67 long axle tube, and one 68 tube. The overall lengths are the same, but the bearing sits differently in each, and the bearing caps are not interchangeable. Learn something new every day.
See how the recess for the bearing is different?
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All this to say, it rolls, and all the lights work, so I can weld in that last cowl panel and get the rockers sprayed.
SD
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esde
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

figured I'd write the last pages and close the book here. Spent the last few days buttoning up loose ends, chasing details, and checking every nut and bolt to make sure I didn't forget anything. For starters, I went back to the car with a ratchet set and double checked every single bolt I touched. Cobbled together some bumpers from loose parts and swap meet stuff. Went through a bunch of the wiring and got the lights working, and even got it started. Took care of the last little bit of welding, which was the slide tracks for the vert heater outlet covers.
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Glove box door was deemed too gnarly, sanded and repainted
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Masked the nice bits, and shot the rockers with 2 coats of single stage. I could've rattle canned it, but the single stage paint just wears better. For the heater channels I think it was a good call
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I realize there are 2 giant access holes cut in the tunnel. I have a piece cut to patch them, but it's misplaced here in the shop somewhere.
Spent some time installing a new trim kit, and running boards.
Dropped it off the stands, and drove it out into the sunshine, first time under it's own power since 2011.
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Rear fender match is decent, but just a little green. The rear quarter has a crease that annoys me, but I don't have time right now to pull the window mechanism to get behind it.
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Overall, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out and more importantly, the owner is very pleased. If I could go back and change anything, I' might have cut out the door bracing sooner to see how things settled, and correct the door gaps. But another shop welded in the bracing and disassembled everything, so I was hoping their work was good. The passenger side door is perfect, but the driver side gap is maybe an 1/8" wider than I'd like. But still good, I'm just critical. The front needs to come up a bit as the beam is like 2" off the ground. But that's it. There's a new interior and carpet set that the owner will install next, and then I expect it will get some summer drive time. Perfect timing right?
SD
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Last edited by esde on Wed May 10, 2023 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Hell yeah, another one back on the road! That was quick (I know, easy for me to say!).
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

Congratulations on some really good work. I went back and looked at the time line from start to finish and can only complement you. Not many folks could do what you’ve accomplished in such a short period if they could even do the work at all.

There are many pictures that have helped me as an owner of a convertible. The picture from Puppy67 of that inner cowl helped too. I needed to know what it looked like behind it since I may need to do an inner fender well in the same spot.
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Convertible heater channel, and reinforcement rail replacement Reply with quote

That came out damn nice! Nice work.
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