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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:41 am Post subject: Rear Suspension Sag |
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My70 Fastback sags in the rear. I have replaced the torsion rod bushings and positioned the torsion rods in their original orientation, but the sag persists; its about 1.5 inches lower at the rear bumper on the left than on the right.
I know that I can reindex the torsion rod, but if the torsion rod is suffering from fatigue than any improvement could be short lived. I am considering adding adjustable coilover or air shocks in the rear to supplement the torsion rod.
Does anyone know of a good, highly adjustable coilover other than the one from EMPI?
If I use air shocks, is it a bright idea to inflate them to different pressures on the right and left to take out the sag in the left torsion rod? Or, will the asymetric pressure in the shocks lead to poor ride and handling?
Thanks
Last edited by Intrinsic on Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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No real coilovers are available and air shocks are useless here. You really just need to re-adjust or replace the torsion bar, it's the correct method. I would just adjust and be done _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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riva Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2012 Posts: 53
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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My chip in.. I would think asymmetric pressure would be fine in this use. I suspect it would improve handling since the existing suspension is uneven. I could probably come up with other reasons to talk myself out of helper airs but the uneven pressure wouldn't be one. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Is the front absolutely level? Front and rear will interact. |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Are you sure no one has messed wit the torsion bars?
I am asking because I managed to mess them up on my first squareback. I had to replace the badly worn rubber bushings and didn't have the right tools to set the spring plates at the correct angle. I was 19 or 20 at the time and didn't know any better.
Just set the torsion bars correctly and be done with it for a very long time. _________________ - Michael
1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Erik G wrote: |
You really just need to re-adjust or replace the torsion bar, it's the correct method. I would just adjust and be done |
I think even Bentley says this. It's probably the best way to go as well. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17963 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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I raised the left rear torsion bar 1 inner spline to get my square level . _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Here are the measurements of the height taken at the bumper rub strip and the body seam
DF 15 1/4" ...................... PF 16"
DR 15" ............................ PR 15 1/2"
So the sag is not quite a large as it appears, but I would like to get it level at the stock stance. |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17963 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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For a 1/2" change you can raise the inner by one spline & lower the outer by one spline. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Thanks, I will have to retireve my torsion bar compressor tool and reindex the splines. |
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Roadbeater Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2011 Posts: 50 Location: Central Ohio
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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If you're going to pull it apart, the squareback torsions are larger and won't drop with people in the rear seat. _________________ 69 Fastback |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Multi69s wrote: |
^^^^^^^^^
What he said |
22mm vs 23.5mm when the extra load capacity Mcode is present right? they also stiffened the rear cross member and had a beefier front sway bar.
Call me crazy but just swapping the rear torsion bars doesnt seem all that smart to me. then again, some here do some pretty questionable things based on theory, so I guess it fits. I'd just adjust it per the Bentley and be done with it _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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The front is further out than the rear.
Start there to get it level, then you may not need to do anything with the rear.
But first... fender and bumper metal could have been tweaked. I judge "level" by measuring from the ground to the bottom of the rocker chrome trim, at its front- and rear-most edges. They should be equal all around. |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Erik G wrote: |
Call me crazy but just swapping the rear torsion bars doesn't seem all that smart to me. then again, some here do some pretty questionable things based on theory. |
There is absolutely no possibility of damaging anything by installing the heavier torsion bars. However, if you travel light, it might give you a firmer ride.
As a side note, virtually all of the rear end components are swappable between a Type 3, and a Type 1. My Squareback has Type 1 Trailing arms, because the original ones were bent. We also used Squareback torsion bars in our Bajas, as an economical way to stiffen up the rear end.
I am one of the crazy ones, _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Slow 1200 Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004 Posts: 2103
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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just lower the front |
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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Thanks for the discussionand all the good suggestions, I will remeasure the sag using the chrome strip. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Sag |
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Intrinsic wrote: |
Thanks for the discussionand all the good suggestions, I will remeasure the sag using the chrome strip. |
Yup, that's a great way to check ride height when you're done. Plus pulling it apart will allow you to check for any damage to the bars. Bentley talks about the paint peeling/coming off as "damage" as it allows the bars to rust. IDK if your car has been caught in a flood or not either. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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