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bigfish6025
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:09 pm Post subject: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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1967 Squareback. I just did my ball joints and before starting on that job, I had a look at my tie rod ends and they looked ok. Once I got in there and started cleaning up + reading lots of threads on the topic of ball joints and tie rod ends, I got the impression that it would be a good idea to replace tie rod parts now, and get them on the same life span. Also, on closer inspection, my tie rod end boots are starting to crack a little from age. So I go to buy new tie rod ends and cant get the left inner. I do some searching on here and learn about what a PITA it is to find the bent left inner end for 68+ cars.
Thing is, mine is a 1967, so what part do I use? One thread I looked at stated that ISP West recommends a comparable Beetle part for use as a left inner on 1967 and earlier type 3's. I'm on ISP west, I have 3 of the 4 tie rod ends in my cart, but its not showing anything (i.e. out of stock) for my left inner (using diagram 'Early' steering). I see their $65 bent inner for the '68+ type 3, but I'm under the impression that I don't need that. Then in one thread, user Tram states that ALL Type 3's need the bent left inner tie rod end. Also, my car is not lowered to my knowledge-- I have an old shop receipt stating they raised the rear and front, so stock height?
After all this fuss, and considering the condition of my tie rod ends, I'm considering only replacing the boots, since none of them are torn or missing- just have the superficial cracking that old rubber gets. So another thread on here turned me on to a set of boots from Cip1 https://www2.cip1.com/c16-131-835b/
I guess I'd like some opinions on if I ought to bite the bullet and replace all my tie rod ends or if its cool to just do the boot replacement for now. Also, what's with the conflicting opinions on which Left Inner tie rod end to use on 1967 and earlier type 3's? It would be great if there was some clarity there, I'm assuming there is a correct answer to that one.
I wonder what else is gonna come out of this can of worms as I'm learning about my front end? I better research how to check the steering damper and what all that does.  |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13269
Location: Tejas!
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bigfish6025
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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Thanks, that explains everything- so I still need the angled, but the one I need is more rarer. Awesome  I think I知 gonna go buy those boots and overhaul this thing. I do appreciate your help- all the stuff I read left me confused and a little overwhelmed. Your succinct summation of this will hopefully help others doing the same searches. |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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| bigfish6025 wrote: |
Thanks, that explains everything- so I still need the angled, but the one I need is more rarer. Awesome I think I知 gonna go buy those boots and overhaul this thing. I do appreciate your help- all the stuff I read left me confused and a little overwhelmed. Your succinct summation of this will hopefully help others doing the same searches. |
You might try seeing if some place like the Zone, NAPA, or Car Quest can order you one up for a 66 Squareback (same part). John J did that when he needed one for his own car. They won't have it in stock, but they might be able to order it. It's worth a try.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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bigfish6025
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:43 pm Post subject: . Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| bigfish6025 wrote: |
Thanks, that explains everything- so I still need the angled, but the one I need is more rarer. Awesome I think I知 gonna go buy those boots and overhaul this thing. I do appreciate your help- all the stuff I read left me confused and a little overwhelmed. Your succinct summation of this will hopefully help others doing the same searches. |
You might try seeing if some place like the Zone, NAPA, or Car Quest can order you one up for a 66 Squareback (same part). John J did that when he needed one for his own car. They won't have it in stock, but they might be able to order it. It's worth a try. |
Thanks bob, I値l give that a try. Knowing how hard it is to get, I壇 like to get a couple if I can, and then just be set for a long time. Iirc it was your advice on another thread to replace these front end parts at the same time to get them on the same service life span. Makes sense, but what is your opinion on just swapping out the boots and adding fresh grease if my tie rod ends aren稚 too far gone? Not trying to half-ass anything here, I知 just interested in knowing what I can get away with here, ya know? I suppose if I can score the elusive part from one of these places then I ought to just do the whole deal. |
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
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Location: Illinois
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bigfish6025
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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Thanks, I saw those and I'm thinking about snagging one. First I am going to try new boots all around. Here are some photos just to give an idea of what I'm looking at. The left inner tie rod end is the one with the upside down castle nut on it. I was beating on it a little, but I'm looking to buy a puller since I'm waiting on a shipment of boots. I pulled up this puller for sale from the Zone, will this one work for my squareback? I'm having a hard time finding specialty tool recommendations on this forum (not wanting to get the cip1 puller for $150).
When I am actually able to get these tie rods off, I'll be in a better position to asses if they can be saved or if I need to go new.
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13269
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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You keep asking about boots only, do you know that all of the tie rod ends are still good? I would want the parts on hand at the very least, but if they are good, there really isn't a reason to change them... there may even be argument that old ones are of better quality.
I'd change the fuel hose as well since the tank will be out
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bigfish6025
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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| Erik G wrote: |
You keep asking about boots only, do you know that all of the tie rod ends are still good? I would want the parts on hand at the very least, but if they are good, there really isn't a reason to change them... there may even be argument that old ones are of better quality.
I'd change the fuel hose as well since the tank will be out |
I'm pretty sure they're still good. And I swear- I'm not trying to make more work for myself! But I want them to last and last, which is why I'm looking at changing boots and re greasing. Is that a good idea, or would you just leave it alone? I know one of my tie rod boots is torn, the others look brittle.
I haven't driven this car on a daily basis since 2003. Back then it handled like a champ. Recent drives have just been around the block here and there- because I didnt want to screw anything up-- my ball joint boots were shot, missing rubber bump stops, etc.. things just deteriorating from age or neglected back in my 20's. So I think my tie rods are still good. When I had the wheels on, jacked up, I had no up/down, left/right play. So I thought even the ball joints were good, but the boots had just disintegrated. Also- in 2019 I changed all fuel lines and rubber brake lines, because it had been sitting. So thats the back story there. But yeah I'll probably change that little piece of fuel line when I put the tank back in just because its such an easy time to do so. |
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mdege
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Joined: January 16, 2018
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Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17969
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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Your boots are typical & still good.
Even torn boots hold grease.
Grease them but don't overfill them.
Drive on them until you notice a ball joint problem.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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| bigfish6025 wrote: |
Thanks, I saw those and I'm thinking about snagging one. First I am going to try new boots all around. Here are some photos just to give an idea of what I'm looking at. The left inner tie rod end is the one with the upside down castle nut on it. I was beating on it a little, but I'm looking to buy a puller since I'm waiting on a shipment of boots. I pulled up this puller for sale from the Zone, will this one work for my squareback? I'm having a hard time finding specialty tool recommendations on this forum (not wanting to get the cip1 puller for $150).
When I am actually able to get these tie rods off, I'll be in a better position to asses if they can be saved or if I need to go new.
[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2361191.jpg[/img |
I think I bought one of those from either Car Quest or Harbor Freight for 10 bucks years ago.
If you're just replacing the whole thing, I'd just use a small pickle fork to get it off.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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bigfish6025
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tie Rod Ends & Boots |
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I didn't see Mike Fishers response till just now- re: grease my tie rod ends and drive on 'em. How do you grease them if there is no zirc? At any rate, I received the above shown tool in the mail and removed my left tie rod end. The outer, with the torn boot, has a little bit of in/out play and moves easily. I'd say 1-2mm of play only. The inner is nice and tight. HOWEVER I did manage to bung up the thread on my frigging left inner tie rod end with this tool. I learned through this experience that it is better to spin the castle nut back on upside-down in order to hold the remover tool bolt in place and centered. It's better to damage a castle nut than a tie rod end you're trying to re-use!!
So now I'm looking to ask you guys if I can fix this with a die? I don't have a local machine shop, so I ordered a m17 x 0.75 die and I'm hoping to clean up the end and re cut the threads. I'll get new castle nuts, or maybe tap my old ones. Check out the pic- and note that this is the correct left inner end with the 9 degree bend. Why I couldn't learn my lesson on the right side was just bad luck I suppose. So I'm gonna try to save this. Ship time on the die is like 4 weeks, so I'm gonna mess around with installing the new boots when I get em. Wish me luck.
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